Hi All.
I'm in the process of setting up the anchor locker. I've copied:
Tahoe Jack's and Duane Dunn's anchoring mods.
Before I fill my new 2 bay anchor locker with rode - thanks Duane. I'm wondering what size and braid type I should use. Is there any advantage to 3 strand vs. single or double braid? Is one more appropriate for anchor rode? I'm in the western bottom of the Long Island Sound. Mostly sand and rock. My anchors are a claw and fortress.
Lastly, how much chain for each. While I know all of this is up to me; I'd like all thoughts, opinions and experiences.
- Gaz
Anchor Rode Size & Type
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James V
- Admiral
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The 3/8 will be fine and you will need/want chaft protection. I like 25 feet of chain. Holds the anchor down well and keeps the boat from bouncing as much.
You do not mention the weight of the anchors. I had too much trouble with the 13 pound WM fluke holding so I went with a Super Max 12 (18 pound) and it has done quite well for me.
The anchors that you have like 7 to 1 or greater scope.
Set well and be prepaired for wind or current shifts.
You do not mention the weight of the anchors. I had too much trouble with the 13 pound WM fluke holding so I went with a Super Max 12 (18 pound) and it has done quite well for me.
The anchors that you have like 7 to 1 or greater scope.
Set well and be prepaired for wind or current shifts.
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
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A 3/8" rode is the best size for our boats, I also like a long chain. You'll never be laughed at for having a chain the length of your boat (unlike those trying to use a silly 3' length of chain sold in some kits). I also like heavier chain. The standard size is 1/2 your rode dimension, 3/16" in this case. I prefer heavier 1/4" for the added weight it brings. This helps increase the caternary and keep the pull horizontal to the bottom as the wind builds.
Three strand or single braid (ie Yale Brait) is what you want for shock absorbtion. I have three strand, but if I had it to do over again I would go with Brait. It stores more compactly and is easier to coil. I'd get 150' of Brait for each rode. I believe Frank had posted a link to some places with good prices in another thread.
http://www.yalecordage.com/html/pdf/anchoring_tech.pdf
Also mark the rode so it is easy to know how much is out when figuring scope. I have plastic markers that get placed in the rope weave every 30' They are great if you are not running them through a windlass all the time.
7:1 scope while great is not very realistic, in 20' of water that is a 140' radius swinging circle. There are very few anchorages where you have the luxury of that much room to swing. We have frequent wind and current changes up here so you have to consider that you could be anywhere in the 360 degree circle. I find I set my 18lb claw and/or Guardian G16 (7 lb aluminum, a cheaper Fortress) on 5:1 with no issues. It's not uncommon to be so limited in anchorages that 3:1 is the best you can get. This is where the longer heavier chain makes up for limited scope. I always set on at least 5:1 but often have to reduce scope afterwards to 3:1 to stay clear of other boats particularly at the top of our 14' tides. Over half the time I will have two anchors out so I can get better scope yet still limit the swinging circle of the boat.
Our 400' poly shoretie line is also very useful in cases like this. The low draft of the Mac lets you tuck inside boats often near shore. I look for a spot that will have 5'+ at low tide and the shore tie can let you easily park the boat in these fringe area's that most boats avoid. You can see it in this picture on it's spool attached to the swim ladder.
Three strand or single braid (ie Yale Brait) is what you want for shock absorbtion. I have three strand, but if I had it to do over again I would go with Brait. It stores more compactly and is easier to coil. I'd get 150' of Brait for each rode. I believe Frank had posted a link to some places with good prices in another thread.
http://www.yalecordage.com/html/pdf/anchoring_tech.pdf
Also mark the rode so it is easy to know how much is out when figuring scope. I have plastic markers that get placed in the rope weave every 30' They are great if you are not running them through a windlass all the time.
7:1 scope while great is not very realistic, in 20' of water that is a 140' radius swinging circle. There are very few anchorages where you have the luxury of that much room to swing. We have frequent wind and current changes up here so you have to consider that you could be anywhere in the 360 degree circle. I find I set my 18lb claw and/or Guardian G16 (7 lb aluminum, a cheaper Fortress) on 5:1 with no issues. It's not uncommon to be so limited in anchorages that 3:1 is the best you can get. This is where the longer heavier chain makes up for limited scope. I always set on at least 5:1 but often have to reduce scope afterwards to 3:1 to stay clear of other boats particularly at the top of our 14' tides. Over half the time I will have two anchors out so I can get better scope yet still limit the swinging circle of the boat.
Our 400' poly shoretie line is also very useful in cases like this. The low draft of the Mac lets you tuck inside boats often near shore. I look for a spot that will have 5'+ at low tide and the shore tie can let you easily park the boat in these fringe area's that most boats avoid. You can see it in this picture on it's spool attached to the swim ladder.
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Frank C
Good choice on copying Tahoe Jack's foredeck backing plate. Regarding your choice of rode, rather than repeat the same info again, just search on the single word: BRAIT You'll find several earlier threads. Read them completely for lots of good "owner experience" on some of your questions.
I agree w/Duane on using heavier chain, but I went up to 3/8" (weighs about one pound/ft). My choice is only a 6-foot length ... YMMV. However, an algorithm linked in the earlier threads proves that it's not length of chain that dictates catenary ... it's the total weight of chain. IIRC, 6-feet of 3/8ths weighs the same as 15 feet of quarter-inch, but IMO, it's easier to hoist, easier to stow.
Brait is the premier choice for anchor rode. In fact a comical story about rode ... I was at a Samson's booth (Yale competitor) during last month's boat show, and asked about anchor rode. He said their only choice right now is a double-braid nylon. THEN, he suggested waiting awhile ... saying Samson will have a BRAIT clone in the near future~! I already have my Brait rode, so I just smiled & thanked him ... pretty amusing. Brait sells for about 50c per foot, absolutely cheap insurance to hold your boat in an overnight storm. However, same's true of the anchor. IMO, the best anchors now available are Bulwagga, Rocna and Spade, and all three are expensive.
One disadvantage though ... you cannot use those poly depth flags through a single-braid weave. Only choice is using a couple of Sharpie pens, different colors, and design your own "marking code" to indicate your rode depths.
Search the web, and you can copy someone else's depth marking code~!
I agree w/Duane on using heavier chain, but I went up to 3/8" (weighs about one pound/ft). My choice is only a 6-foot length ... YMMV. However, an algorithm linked in the earlier threads proves that it's not length of chain that dictates catenary ... it's the total weight of chain. IIRC, 6-feet of 3/8ths weighs the same as 15 feet of quarter-inch, but IMO, it's easier to hoist, easier to stow.
Brait is the premier choice for anchor rode. In fact a comical story about rode ... I was at a Samson's booth (Yale competitor) during last month's boat show, and asked about anchor rode. He said their only choice right now is a double-braid nylon. THEN, he suggested waiting awhile ... saying Samson will have a BRAIT clone in the near future~! I already have my Brait rode, so I just smiled & thanked him ... pretty amusing. Brait sells for about 50c per foot, absolutely cheap insurance to hold your boat in an overnight storm. However, same's true of the anchor. IMO, the best anchors now available are Bulwagga, Rocna and Spade, and all three are expensive.
One disadvantage though ... you cannot use those poly depth flags through a single-braid weave. Only choice is using a couple of Sharpie pens, different colors, and design your own "marking code" to indicate your rode depths.
Search the web, and you can copy someone else's depth marking code~!
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Gazmn
- Admiral
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- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bayside, NY '97X, E-tec 115 Pontoon, The "Ollie Gray" & '01 Chevy Tahoe W/ Tow Pkg; AL 2X Trlr.
Thanks guys 
Frank: I'll do the search and reading.
I think we all admire and appreciate Duane and T' Jack's innovations - as well as others. I, however, am a copycat --not an innovator, at this time.
I bought 250' nylon 3 strand 1/2" last year while setting up the boat...Duh
I'll be changing to 3/8ths Brait, as per all of you and will go with heavier chain.
The 1/2 takes up the whole locker.
BTB, I have an extra 1/2er untouched if anyone's interested...
But just so I get this:
Brait = Single braid? and this the best for anchor rode?
As in, will single braid lay easier than double? or is double braid just used for sheets...
Frank: I'll do the search and reading.
I think we all admire and appreciate Duane and T' Jack's innovations - as well as others. I, however, am a copycat --not an innovator, at this time.
I bought 250' nylon 3 strand 1/2" last year while setting up the boat...Duh
I'll be changing to 3/8ths Brait, as per all of you and will go with heavier chain.
The 1/2 takes up the whole locker.
BTB, I have an extra 1/2er untouched if anyone's interested...
But just so I get this:
Brait = Single braid? and this the best for anchor rode?
As in, will single braid lay easier than double? or is double braid just used for sheets...
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Frank C
Careful Gaz ...
Nylon 3-strand has long been THE choice for anchor rodes ... because nylon stretches, PLUS 3-strand has an inate ability to stretch. But with the advent of modern weaving machines, it seems that 12-strand single braid has many, many advantages for anchoring ... LAY is significant among them ... but that advantage isn't life-changing.
Your 3-strand anchor rode is fine as it is, except that it's probably a bit too large for the weight of a Mac (inland conditions). Half-inch rope will stretch to 12 percent, just like 3/8ths ... but it stretches at a much higher load factor. If you're frequently in heavy overnight conditions, you might prefer that half-inch ... indeed, MaddMike might reject 3/8ths rode for use in constant coastal conditions ... but most of us would choose 3/8ths for our predominant inland anchoring.
Bottom line ... I'd say you're better off to spend any extra boatbucks on your choice of anchor instead. Use the rode you already have. The advantages of Brait are a convenience factor in fitting the locker, but the right anchor will keep you off the beach, or the rocks~!
West Marine's catalog has a feature called The Advisor, special pages that describe these sorts of differences ... highly recommended reading.
- Single braid describes a weave, a particular choice of rope construction.
- Double braid is just a weave, albeit, a more complex choice of construction.
- Single braid will usually (not always) have more stretch than double braid,
but choice of material is critically important.
- Furthermore:
- Polyester vs. nylon are just alternate choices of rope material.
- Brait is a single braid NYLON. Nylon is better for anchoring because it stretches up to 12%.
- NER StaSet is a double-braid POLYESTER. It's a better choice for sheets or halyards,
specifically because it does NOT stretch (maybe only 3%). - Note: 12% of a 200-foot rode means about 25' of "give" versus heavy wind & waves!
Nylon 3-strand has long been THE choice for anchor rodes ... because nylon stretches, PLUS 3-strand has an inate ability to stretch. But with the advent of modern weaving machines, it seems that 12-strand single braid has many, many advantages for anchoring ... LAY is significant among them ... but that advantage isn't life-changing.
Your 3-strand anchor rode is fine as it is, except that it's probably a bit too large for the weight of a Mac (inland conditions). Half-inch rope will stretch to 12 percent, just like 3/8ths ... but it stretches at a much higher load factor. If you're frequently in heavy overnight conditions, you might prefer that half-inch ... indeed, MaddMike might reject 3/8ths rode for use in constant coastal conditions ... but most of us would choose 3/8ths for our predominant inland anchoring.
Bottom line ... I'd say you're better off to spend any extra boatbucks on your choice of anchor instead. Use the rode you already have. The advantages of Brait are a convenience factor in fitting the locker, but the right anchor will keep you off the beach, or the rocks~!
West Marine's catalog has a feature called The Advisor, special pages that describe these sorts of differences ... highly recommended reading.
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
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I think the whole point of why he does need to get rid of the 250' of 1/2" is the single rode takes up the whole locker and he wants to split his locker as I did to get space for 2 complete chain and rode combinations stored and ready to go. He already has his Claw (Bruce style) and Fortress (Aluminum Danforth style) anchors. With these he's got both the soft and the hard/foul bottoms covered.
I find there is a big advantage to having both anchors and rodes on the bow fully connected and ready. I wouldn't want my second anchor and rode stored in parts and kept elsewhere on the boat. With both on the bow you can choose either as the bottom dictates and deploy the anchor without any additional setup. Stored this way you just use the anchors, you never setup the anchors. Mine are setup and stored so that I never have to do anything with then on the water or trailering.
I find there is a big advantage to having both anchors and rodes on the bow fully connected and ready. I wouldn't want my second anchor and rode stored in parts and kept elsewhere on the boat. With both on the bow you can choose either as the bottom dictates and deploy the anchor without any additional setup. Stored this way you just use the anchors, you never setup the anchors. Mine are setup and stored so that I never have to do anything with then on the water or trailering.
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Chip Hindes
- Admiral
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- Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu
The proper diameter of your rode doesn't really have much to do with the conditions under which you anchor. The load a rode will carry is roughly proportional to the diameter squared, so that 1/2" rode handles nearly 2X the load of 3/8". That's the good news; but bigger isn't necessarily better. The bad news is it also transmits nearly 2X the shock loads. That 1/2" rode won't do you a bit of additional good if it rips the cleats right off the bow.Your 3-strand anchor rode is fine as it is, except that it's probably a bit too large for the weight of a Mac (inland conditions). Half-inch rope will stretch to 12 percent, just like 3/8ths ... but it stretches at a much higher load factor. If you're frequently in heavy overnight conditions, you might prefer that half-inch ... indeed, MaddMike might reject 3/8ths rode for use in constant coastal conditions ... but most of us would choose 3/8ths for our predominant inland anchoring.
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Gazmn
- Admiral
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I appreciate all of your points. However, Duane is picking up on my intentions a little more. While I will keep my current used 1/2" rode and will use it - for now. I look forward to investing in 150' of 3/8" yacht brait and about 15' of heavy chain x2, for each anchor to be permanently set up on the bow.
This way all of my work, installation of: 2 bow rollers, 2 8" SS steel cleats, oversized backing plates and all isn't for naught. I also added a 31 gal triangular water 'bag' in the bow with an inlet on the starboard side upper stripe.
Mod posting soon to follow.
I just finished robbing a bank to pay for my mooring and hope to get Ol'Gray in the water tommorow
So the new rodes will have to wait for now.
I think I may actually have a new spin on a water system upgrade, which will provide stored fresh water to the head & galley sinks and a 25' transom washdown hose. I also put a raw water tap in for unlimited supply and /or conservation. Details to follow in the mods section.
First things first though: Boat in Water
BTB, I'm dunking her sans mast, for now, just to get this party started.
I have a 5 Hp kicker with the moving bracket Thanks again Duane
as a backup - since I don't know how to sail yet...
This way all of my work, installation of: 2 bow rollers, 2 8" SS steel cleats, oversized backing plates and all isn't for naught. I also added a 31 gal triangular water 'bag' in the bow with an inlet on the starboard side upper stripe.
Mod posting soon to follow.
I just finished robbing a bank to pay for my mooring and hope to get Ol'Gray in the water tommorow
So the new rodes will have to wait for now.I think I may actually have a new spin on a water system upgrade, which will provide stored fresh water to the head & galley sinks and a 25' transom washdown hose. I also put a raw water tap in for unlimited supply and /or conservation. Details to follow in the mods section.
First things first though: Boat in Water
BTB, I'm dunking her sans mast, for now, just to get this party started.
I have a 5 Hp kicker with the moving bracket Thanks again Duane
as a backup - since I don't know how to sail yet...
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kziadie
- First Officer
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I currently use the conventional setup of 150' of 3/8" 3 strand with 1/4" chain which makes packing the anchor locker somewhat like solving a Rubik's cube. I have a question for you folks using brait... Yale seems to recommend 1/2" brait for boats over 20 ft., are you guys using 1/2" or 3/8"?
Thanks for your help.
Kelly
Thanks for your help.
Kelly