I have a 88 26d that is set up for crusing. We spend a lot of time on the Great Lakes and the Noth Channel above Manitoulin Island. Our boat is well equiped with dodger, bimini, lots of mods like tiller balde, anchor horn(I strongly beleive in a 10 k Bruce anchor), dual axle trailer etc.
I come from a Hobie Cat background so I really apprciate the sailing ability of the D with the centre board. A lot of our friends have moved up to an X but we spend half of our time waitng for them to catch up. This past summer we spent a lot of time in the North Channel but the weather was not the best. There was a few ocasions when we spent 2 or 3 days in the boat because of gail warning and rain. I fact we could not even put up the pop top as the cover blue off a couple of times.
Now my question. We are looking at going to a 2005 or newer 26M.
Has anyone a true sailing comparison between the 26D and the 26M? I would like to move up to the M and willing to sacrfice a little sailng but I have not reached the pace of the X quite yet.
Your comments will be appreciated. With the Canadian dollar where it is. Now is the time for me to decide.
Thanks
Ted
26d vs 26 m
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johnnyonspot
- First Officer
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:19 pm
- Location: Elk River, MN.
With respect to the exchange rate, I think waiting will not hurt you at all. I would bet the Loony will continue to gain against the USD in the near term. Then again, what do I know?
JFS&G, how would a Mac 25 compare to 26D/S and the X and M? In performance, not price. I know I got y'all beat on price.
JFS&G, how would a Mac 25 compare to 26D/S and the X and M? In performance, not price. I know I got y'all beat on price.
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Frank C
Welcome ab'd, Ted!
Purely as a SWAG, 85% of members here owned the powersailor as their first Mac, and over half them, their first-ever boat. I'm betting that only a small fraction among the remaining 15% have direct experience with both the 26M and 26D (or Mac25).
Just from hearsay, seems the 26D was Roger's best ever performer, prolly a good reason for recycling it as the 26M. But I think the power-hull changes are a vastly greater detriment than dagger board (PLUS rotating mast) can compensate. In many hd-2-hd encounters the 26M barely outsails the 26X, which you report trouncing. Further, the San Diego club has pretty regular races, and I believe there's a 26D down there that always wins. Still, the 26M probably offers a much better platform for improvements by a good sailor.
Catigale's correct, the accommodations are tough to beat, but it sounds as if sail performance is very high on your list. Attempting a helpful, non-critical suggestion, you really need to find a ride on the M. Better yet wd be a friendly nearby owner who can offer more than just a ride.
Purely as a SWAG, 85% of members here owned the powersailor as their first Mac, and over half them, their first-ever boat. I'm betting that only a small fraction among the remaining 15% have direct experience with both the 26M and 26D (or Mac25).
Just from hearsay, seems the 26D was Roger's best ever performer, prolly a good reason for recycling it as the 26M. But I think the power-hull changes are a vastly greater detriment than dagger board (PLUS rotating mast) can compensate. In many hd-2-hd encounters the 26M barely outsails the 26X, which you report trouncing. Further, the San Diego club has pretty regular races, and I believe there's a 26D down there that always wins. Still, the 26M probably offers a much better platform for improvements by a good sailor.
Catigale's correct, the accommodations are tough to beat, but it sounds as if sail performance is very high on your list. Attempting a helpful, non-critical suggestion, you really need to find a ride on the M. Better yet wd be a friendly nearby owner who can offer more than just a ride.
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LOUIS B HOLUB
- Admiral
- Posts: 1315
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:40 am
- Location: 1999 Mac-X, Nissan 50 HP, Kemah, TX, "Holub Boat"
Very true. We moved up from a 26-S for the larger cabin space of the Mac-X and its been much more comfortable. Spending any amount of time within the cabin such as extended stays, there is quite a difference in my opinion for more space & comfort.Catigale wrote:
Once you get a taste of either theor
accomodations its tough to go back though.
Another plus with the X & M includes the benefit of a motor cruizer with more engine. Only complaint I have with the big engine concerns the "noise" of a 50 HP. Its aweful.
Just an opinion here, and from someone who's never sailed on a Mac Classic, but I believe you will be very disappointed in the sailing and handling of a powersailor compared to your 26D. Besides the huge financial difference, there are significant costs to bear both from the compromises in sailing made for powering with the big motor, as well as from the huge freeboard that gives the standing head room.
We were enamored with the 26X's excellent RVing layout and standing head room, and bought one in spite of the big motor. In the end, those features weren't nearly as important to us as we thought they'd be. If we ever own another MacGregor, it will likely be a 26S.
I'm a bit surprised you were putting up canvas in a gale though. I think that's when I'd be taking it down, not only to protect it, but to reduce windage--not something you can do with the huge freeboard of the powersailors.
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Moe
We were enamored with the 26X's excellent RVing layout and standing head room, and bought one in spite of the big motor. In the end, those features weren't nearly as important to us as we thought they'd be. If we ever own another MacGregor, it will likely be a 26S.
I'm a bit surprised you were putting up canvas in a gale though. I think that's when I'd be taking it down, not only to protect it, but to reduce windage--not something you can do with the huge freeboard of the powersailors.
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Moe
I really want to thank everyone for their replies. It is good to get feedback. In response to some of the points sent back here is a few of my oipinions.
I come from a Hobie Cat world and yes I enjoy being on the edge. I found out the windows on my 88D leak. Need I say more. For those that want to get rid of turn up, that tiller mod you see on the internet, make the leading edge about 3"to 3.5" and while you are at it add abou 6" in length.
Putting up pop top canvas in gail winds, you are correct but after a couple of days of not being able to straiten up you will do a lot of unusal things. By the way previous summer (July 2006)we were in the North Channel at Heywood Island and a significan storm hit. We were spidered in but yes our pop top cover popped every snap and we ended up with a layer of water on the cabin floor. A sailboat off our steern, we found out later got a picture of his wind indicator on his cell phone camera. Beleive it or not it showed a wind speed of 120KM, true or not I do not know but the local paper apparently used it. If it didn't blow away then it is not going to. We find tight anchorages where we can tie to shore with multiple lines in bad weather. I also beleive in 10K Bruce anchors with about 25"feet of 3/8 chain and a sentinal mushroom anchor. I like to get a good nitgh sleep.
One of the upgrades I have also done on my boat is go to a 15 HP Honda 4 STROKE. This has reduced our fuel consumption considerably( I used 5 gal in 2 weeks this year up North). It also hits hull speed at less than half throttle. At full power I hit 8.5 Knots. Good for heavey waters of the Great Lakes and North Channel which we sail all summer.
The 26D is probably the fastest boat that MacGregor built in the 26' range. However the 25' Venture is not fare behind. A friend who is moored accross the dock has given me the opertunity to sail his 25'Venture. I was very impressed. I would rank it between the 26D and the 26S for speed. Unfortunately a close friend has an X and it is great for space and not repacking at bedtime and breakfast but it rates with the Optimist class of sailboats when it comes to sailing unless you have 30KM winds.
We are very lucky here in Hamilton as we have a land locked harbour that is ideal for sailing. We get the good westerly winds but not the roll of the Lake Ontario waves. We also have one of the few free anchorages where you can drop the hook and feel like you are far from the city environemt. And yes you don't see the steel plants.
Again thanks for the input.
Ted26D
I come from a Hobie Cat world and yes I enjoy being on the edge. I found out the windows on my 88D leak. Need I say more. For those that want to get rid of turn up, that tiller mod you see on the internet, make the leading edge about 3"to 3.5" and while you are at it add abou 6" in length.
Putting up pop top canvas in gail winds, you are correct but after a couple of days of not being able to straiten up you will do a lot of unusal things. By the way previous summer (July 2006)we were in the North Channel at Heywood Island and a significan storm hit. We were spidered in but yes our pop top cover popped every snap and we ended up with a layer of water on the cabin floor. A sailboat off our steern, we found out later got a picture of his wind indicator on his cell phone camera. Beleive it or not it showed a wind speed of 120KM, true or not I do not know but the local paper apparently used it. If it didn't blow away then it is not going to. We find tight anchorages where we can tie to shore with multiple lines in bad weather. I also beleive in 10K Bruce anchors with about 25"feet of 3/8 chain and a sentinal mushroom anchor. I like to get a good nitgh sleep.
One of the upgrades I have also done on my boat is go to a 15 HP Honda 4 STROKE. This has reduced our fuel consumption considerably( I used 5 gal in 2 weeks this year up North). It also hits hull speed at less than half throttle. At full power I hit 8.5 Knots. Good for heavey waters of the Great Lakes and North Channel which we sail all summer.
The 26D is probably the fastest boat that MacGregor built in the 26' range. However the 25' Venture is not fare behind. A friend who is moored accross the dock has given me the opertunity to sail his 25'Venture. I was very impressed. I would rank it between the 26D and the 26S for speed. Unfortunately a close friend has an X and it is great for space and not repacking at bedtime and breakfast but it rates with the Optimist class of sailboats when it comes to sailing unless you have 30KM winds.
We are very lucky here in Hamilton as we have a land locked harbour that is ideal for sailing. We get the good westerly winds but not the roll of the Lake Ontario waves. We also have one of the few free anchorages where you can drop the hook and feel like you are far from the city environemt. And yes you don't see the steel plants.
Again thanks for the input.
Ted26D
There is a MacGregor 25 in our marina, and I can tell you it's much faster than a Capri 18! 
OTOH, I don't believe our 26X was much faster overall. It was definitely faster than the C-18 on a beam reach, but with no hard-core GPS measurements, it seems to me the C-18 is faster both upwind VMG as well as downwind. It also heels about half as much as the X for a given wind and sail trim.
OTOH, I don't believe our 26X was much faster overall. It was definitely faster than the C-18 on a beam reach, but with no hard-core GPS measurements, it seems to me the C-18 is faster both upwind VMG as well as downwind. It also heels about half as much as the X for a given wind and sail trim.-
baldbaby2000
- Admiral
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:41 am
- Location: Rapid City, SD, 2005 26M, 40hp Tohatsu
- Contact:
I've been in races with the 26 classic and they're definitely faster than the M. I've also owned two Mac 25's and just got done racing against one last month and they are also faster than the M although probably not quite as fast as the classic. Not only is the 25 faster in real time, they got a handicap of 254 while we got 246. It makes it pretty tough to compete. If the M got a fair handicap that would make me much happier. I also used to race Hobies so may be upgrading if I find the right boat but to me the M is so comfortable campared to any other trailer sailor I've seen so it's going to be a tough choice.
Daniel
Daniel
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beene
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2546
- Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:31 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Ontario Canada, '07 26M, Merc 75 4s PEGASUS
Hi Ted
You are welcome to come out for a sail with me any time you want.
Hurry up though, winter's comin'.
I am just over 1 hour's drive from you.
Kemp Bay and Simcoe offer some great sailing winds that Lk Ont can't compare to sometimes due to it's open area allowing for the seas to become too rough in higher winds.
I have been out on Kemp Bay in 35++ kt winds with less than 1 foot waves.
Goes like a rocket on a reach without high seas to slow her down.
G
You are welcome to come out for a sail with me any time you want.
Hurry up though, winter's comin'.
I am just over 1 hour's drive from you.
Kemp Bay and Simcoe offer some great sailing winds that Lk Ont can't compare to sometimes due to it's open area allowing for the seas to become too rough in higher winds.
I have been out on Kemp Bay in 35++ kt winds with less than 1 foot waves.
Goes like a rocket on a reach without high seas to slow her down.
G
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walt
- First Officer
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:05 am
- Location: Colorado "Sea Eagle" 1990 26S
"For those that want to get rid of turn up, that tiller mod you see on the internet, make the leading edge about 3"to 3.5" and while you are at it add abou 6" in length."
I have the stock Idasalor rudder and the original stop which limited the rudder in the down position was trashed so I had to rebuild this and ended up with the new rudder raked a little further forward than the stock position.
Ive never experienced the roundup with this configuration despite a lot of sailing in some reasonably high winds - until this last weekend.. We were out in comletety filled in white cap conditions and sailing on a full main only and I had some guests who knew another guest who I let sail earlier in the summer (complete newby to sailing) and in a big gust, said he got the boat (a 26S) over to 35 degrees - out of control of course and I was on the front of the boat taking pictures.
So my new guests wanted to "exceed this" for bragging rights. What I found was that the boat would just slowly round up into the wind when I got heeled over past about 30 degrees. We were able to hit 35 again but just barely.
Im sure the original guy is taking this as a challenge (with my boat) to now exceed 35 degrees and I think it will take a reefed main and the jib in place and a good windy day.
FYI, Im pretty impressed that you were able to test the windows for leaks!!!
I have the stock Idasalor rudder and the original stop which limited the rudder in the down position was trashed so I had to rebuild this and ended up with the new rudder raked a little further forward than the stock position.
Ive never experienced the roundup with this configuration despite a lot of sailing in some reasonably high winds - until this last weekend.. We were out in comletety filled in white cap conditions and sailing on a full main only and I had some guests who knew another guest who I let sail earlier in the summer (complete newby to sailing) and in a big gust, said he got the boat (a 26S) over to 35 degrees - out of control of course and I was on the front of the boat taking pictures.
So my new guests wanted to "exceed this" for bragging rights. What I found was that the boat would just slowly round up into the wind when I got heeled over past about 30 degrees. We were able to hit 35 again but just barely.
Im sure the original guy is taking this as a challenge (with my boat) to now exceed 35 degrees and I think it will take a reefed main and the jib in place and a good windy day.
FYI, Im pretty impressed that you were able to test the windows for leaks!!!
Wet windows! Turn up is not always a bad thing.
I suggest that it is not a good thing to do. Sounds impresive, but not when you have to spend 2 hours afterwards cleaning up dishes, drinks, lifejackets, gear, etc.
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Frank C
This is pretty easy to do on SF Bay. I'd guess it happens at 40 degrees for sure. Even at 35 degrees heel, a two-foot chop will continuously wash across the leeward windows of the 26X. At 45 degrees, plus a skosh, the coaming gets some overwash. That's also the point at which round-ups are becoming almost uncontrollable.walt wrote: ... FYI, Im pretty impressed that you were able to test the windows for leaks!!!
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Steve K
- Captain
- Posts: 703
- Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:35 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26D
- Location: So. Cal. desert
D owner.......... former X owner.
Yep, went back to the pop-top thing.
Loved the 26X for accommodations.
The D is the fastest Mac built to date, imho. This is from experience of sailing both D and X and watching the M in action.
Of course, the Ms I've observed were skippered by some very green sailors. Still, I don't think one could catch me in most conditions. I'm sure someone will make a liar out of me by some fluke, but for the most part, the D is faster........ considerably faster. The other two hulls might have a chance on a long run......not sure, because usually when they are running, I'm reaching, back and forth through the pac, teasing the other boats. (showoff!!! they say)
The D boat loves a beat and points very high (my does anyway) too.
BTY: D boats have been rated between 210 and 215 PHRF, just to give you an idea how they compare.
This, in no way, is a putdown of the other boats. One just has to decide which boat fits their particular needs/wants. If the X-boat had the performance of a D, I would still have mine, just because it has standing (almost) headroom. But for me, the D is THE boat, 'cause it's fast AND it is quite a bit lighter, which make it a breeze to tow.
Did I mention, I actually like a tiller better than a steering wheel too?
SK
26D "Three Sheets" (and a breeze)
Yep, went back to the pop-top thing.
Loved the 26X for accommodations.
The D is the fastest Mac built to date, imho. This is from experience of sailing both D and X and watching the M in action.
Of course, the Ms I've observed were skippered by some very green sailors. Still, I don't think one could catch me in most conditions. I'm sure someone will make a liar out of me by some fluke, but for the most part, the D is faster........ considerably faster. The other two hulls might have a chance on a long run......not sure, because usually when they are running, I'm reaching, back and forth through the pac, teasing the other boats. (showoff!!! they say)
The D boat loves a beat and points very high (my does anyway) too.
BTY: D boats have been rated between 210 and 215 PHRF, just to give you an idea how they compare.
This, in no way, is a putdown of the other boats. One just has to decide which boat fits their particular needs/wants. If the X-boat had the performance of a D, I would still have mine, just because it has standing (almost) headroom. But for me, the D is THE boat, 'cause it's fast AND it is quite a bit lighter, which make it a breeze to tow.
Did I mention, I actually like a tiller better than a steering wheel too?
SK
26D "Three Sheets" (and a breeze)
Had an '88 D. Now have a 2001 X with 9.9 Honda (avg. 12+ mpg this summer over 110 miles, by the way). As others state above, X sails slower and is left behind by boats the D left way behind, has more hull windage and looks less sleek. The X's narrow CB seems to stall more easily than the D's wider daggerboard and make it a bit trickier to sail at very low speeds. However, we would not go back to the D in view of X's roomier, better laid out and more comfy cabin, i.e. the RV advantage.
Also, upwind or beam reaching, once the CB is positioned to balance the sailplan, with the wheel centered, the X will hold course by itself, sometimes for a half hour or more, something that I never reliably achieved on the D, despite various line and bungee tiller lashing experiments. I have really enjoyed the presence of the X's phantom helmsman.
Also, when cruising, we either ignore the X's 10% or so loss of boat speed, put up more sail, or even motor sail.
Ron
Also, upwind or beam reaching, once the CB is positioned to balance the sailplan, with the wheel centered, the X will hold course by itself, sometimes for a half hour or more, something that I never reliably achieved on the D, despite various line and bungee tiller lashing experiments. I have really enjoyed the presence of the X's phantom helmsman.
Also, when cruising, we either ignore the X's 10% or so loss of boat speed, put up more sail, or even motor sail.
Ron