Dismasted this past weekend.

[Sumner]

Sumner, on Bob's boat without the turnbuckle, do you know what he did to attach the bottom of the forestay to the Johnson lever? The bottom of the forestay, IIRC, ends in a threaded rod that screws down into the turnbuckle...is there something I'm missing or forgetting maybe?

I am pretty sure that he went from a hank-on sail/forestay to the furler and used the original forestay that ends in a thimble at the bottom. I think your boat was converted to a furler where the forestay has the rotary swaged on threaded rod for the turnbuckle. That is needed if you have the turnbuckle in the drum. I'm not sure how he handled the bottom right at the bottom of the drum but I think I can visualize it . This all came from a phone call with him a couple years ago and then he sent me the picture.

I'll see if I can e-mail him tomorrow and see if he can clear it up and check my memory on the whole deal. If you do need a forestay rigged with the thimble that isn't expensive to do. Might be able to make it up at a WM or not much from riggingonly.com. The only benefit I see to this is if you are going from a hank-on with that forestay to a Johnson Lever like I think he did or you want to keep the same forestay length you have to match the sail and the hounds on the mast and then you still might have to make up a new forestay with the correct ends, but maybe it is time for one anyway. Lots of options and probably as many opinions on what is best ,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[delevi]

For those with hank-on sails, here is great item that will adjust the forestay tension for rigging:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=205004

It is labeled a backstay adjuster but is basically an easily adjusted turnbuckle that locks/unlocks without pins and may be used to replace the forestay turnbuckle.

Leon

[Sumner]

Sumner, on Bob's boat without the turnbuckle, do you know what he did to attach the bottom of the forestay to the Johnson lever? The bottom of the forestay, IIRC, ends in a threaded rod that screws down into the turnbuckle...is there something I'm missing or forgetting maybe?

I am pretty sure that he went from a hank-on sail/forestay to the furler and used the original forestay that ends in a thimble at the bottom. I think your boat was converted to a furler where the forestay has the rotary swaged on threaded rod for the turnbuckle. That is needed if you have the turnbuckle in the drum. I'm not sure how he handled the bottom right at the bottom of the drum but I think I can visualize it . This all came from a phone call with him a couple years ago and then he sent me the picture.

I'll see if I can e-mail him tomorrow and see if he can clear it up and check my memory on the whole deal.

Well Bob got back to me and filled in the blanks some...I'll let him tell the story....

I reused the original forestay, I was able to do that because I used a Snapfurl that has a 2 piece foil, so did not have to worry about passing the loop through the foil.
With my bow-roller setup it did reduce the rake a bit but I found with the new Somerset sails, Ida rudder and traveller I could point very well and it never rounded up any more. I also found I no longer needed to release the mainsheet in a gust of wind. I would just work the traveller and sometimes point a bit higher to get her back on her feet. It was like a different boat. I surprised a lot of people on much more expensive boats with this setup.

First Bob if you read this thanks for sharing. The important thing here is the fact that he was using a Snapfurl with the 2 piece foil. I didn't take that into consideration. With the CDI that we use and a lot of people on here use when you go from the stock forestay with the thimble at the bottom you need to get a new one made up with the threaded stud on the bottom so that it can pass through the foil. So if you try and go to the Johnson Lever below and have the stock forestay and get a CDI it isn't going to work.

If you have a forestay that is already setup for the CDI with the threaded stud on the bottom if you could put a piece on the threaded stud that had a hole in it you then might be able to ditch the turnbuckle and attach the piece with the hole in it to the top of the Johnson Lever. I did a quick search for a fitting that could be used on the threaded stud and came up empty handed. It might or might not exist.

I guess someone else is going to have to take it from here and see what they can come up with if they are so inclined,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[vizwhiz]

Sumner, thanks so much for all that help...
I have the CDI furler, and wanted to remove the turnbuckle and just replace it with the Johnson lever that I have (the small one, not the one you have). I figured that might help keep the overall forestay length the same and not require moving hounds and such...

So if I remove the turnbuckle, the only thing I really need to come up with is a way to put the threaded rod through the metal drum housing and have it stop where the other one does...

The threaded rod on the bottom of the turnbuckle is really just a t-head-bolt with a long, skinny shank and fine threads...and it is "captured" under the thimble at the bottom which you put the pin through. What do you think about a small piece of SS round stock the same diameter as the head of that t-bolt, drilled across the center of it and tapped to match the threads on the forestay-end threaded rod? Just poke the forestay down there through the metal drum housing, thread that little booger on and "capture" it again under the same thimble piece?
The only thing I can think of is that it might spin off...so pass it all the way through and put a cotter pin (or ring ding) on the other side of it so it can't back out through the little threaded cylinder end-nut.


This is what I have in mind...

[Sumner]

.....The only thing I can think of is that it might spin off..

You identified the potential problem area that I was also thinking of when I thought 'how would I do this'. Your idea might work if there is room in that area to do all of that.

Also look at the option of doing something else besides the strap at the bottom of the CDI. I believe its only purpose is to keep the bottom of the CDI from rising up. If one approached that problem from a different angle then the connection to the Johnson Lever would maybe become easier. That area acts like a toggle so if you start changing the dynamics of it I would for sure put a toggle at the bottom like Bob. I also put one there which might be a little redundant but I can't see a down side to it.

I think you will figure this out and I'll ponder it some more myself.

On another note a guy that lives and works on his boat off and on at the yard took a look in ours the other day and everything is in good shape. Bilge is dry and the one panel that I left on....



...the solar array (where the arrow is above) is keeping the battery up for the pump and the vents I made seem to be keeping the boat aired out inside. If you still want to go by to see what we have done and the boat let me know,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Sum

[vizwhiz]

It's supposed to be rainy this weekend, so I may not get as much done on the fiberglass as I'd like...I may pull the Johnson lever out and do some exploring...

I'd definitely like to come by and check out your Endeavor once you and Ruth come down. Just let us know!

[Sumner]

It's supposed to be rainy this weekend, so I may not get as much done on the fiberglass as I'd like...I may pull the Johnson lever out and do some exploring...

I'd definitely like to come by and check out your Endeavor once you and Ruth come down. Just let us know!

Sounds good,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[capnmac25]

tlgibson97, this past weekend we were towing our Mac 25 from an unfamiliar, impromptu boat ramp to its winter resting spot when we tangled with a power line we did not see.

Only the radio antenna atop the mast struck the wires (we think), but the mast snapped cleanly at the spreader bolts. Sounds to me that it's a weakest spot on the mast....

[Phil M]

Vizwhiz,
I can tell you that due to the many discussions about this on this forum, I bit the bullet and installed a Johnson lever while also tensioning my rig with a Loos gauge. My original tension was way out when I measured with the Loos gauge. I installed a second mast hound about 8 inches up from the original, and have kept the CDI furler in tact and attached to the higher mast hound, while keeping the lower one for the shrouds. It was quite a leap of faith to do mod based on only what you have read on this forum, but it worked out just great.
I would like to sail some more now, but cold weather is setting in and more testing of the improved tension will have to wait.

[vizwhiz]

Thanks for the encouragement Phil... I have the small size Johnson lever, so I'm wanting to experiment a little to see if I can just take up all the slack that adding it would cause, or if it will be easy enough to remove the turnbuckle and simplify the forestay hardware.

I also wonder whether separating the shroud attachment points from the forestay attachment point is good for the mast or could cause more trouble down the line...? Essentially, they are meant to balance each other (the forestay against the two upper shrouds), and while the difference of a few inches isn't that great, it puts a relatively strong moment on the mast extrusion rather than it being in a state of equilibrium at that point. Those two opposing force vectors will be the largest on the mast...and while I cannot argue with positive experience, I question whether there will be issues after several years... I'd just hate to do something to compromise the integrity of the mast structure by moving the two forces out of the equilibrium they were designed to be in.

(Sorry if my engineering is getting in the way of practicality...)

As for the Loos gauge, it is definitely on the list of "things to buy for the boat when I have $100 to spend" which is under the section "things to do after the boat is repaired and on the water"...

[Phil M]

Thanks for the encouragement Phil... I have the small size Johnson lever, so I'm wanting to experiment a little to see if I can just take up all the slack that adding it would cause, or if it will be easy enough to remove the turnbuckle and simplify the forestay hardware.

I also wonder whether separating the shroud attachment points from the forestay attachment point is good for the mast or could cause more trouble down the line...? Essentially, they are meant to balance each other (the forestay against the two upper shrouds), and while the difference of a few inches isn't that great, it puts a relatively strong moment on the mast extrusion rather than it being in a state of equilibrium at that point. Those two opposing force vectors will be the largest on the mast...and while I cannot argue with positive experience, I question whether there will be issues after several years... I'd just hate to do something to compromise the integrity of the mast structure by moving the two forces out of the equilibrium they were designed to be in.

:

You are right about that tension over 8 inches. Time will tell if it really matters.

[Johnacuda]

I agree with the shock load assassment. My 2000 has the newer style brackets, and I store the mast on the boat. I don't ever remove the stay hardware from the mast. Is there a compellung reason to do so?

[Sumner]

...You are right about that tension over 8 inches. Time will tell if it really matters.

I think you will be fine and the nice things about these boats is that it is easier to keep an eye on things. The 8 inch lever arm in conjunction with the thickness of the cross-section of the mast is not that great. I moved ours up quite a bit more, but also moved the shrouds up to the same point. If we would of gone 8 inches and I didn't think the shrouds needed replacement I would of done what you are doing and kept an eye on things.

The other side of it is that shrouds are so cheap, and most of our boats are to the age where they probably should be replaced anyway, why not put on new longer ones,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Phil M]

I agree with the shock load assassment. My 2000 has the newer style brackets, and I store the mast on the boat. I don't ever remove the stay hardware from the mast. Is there a compellung reason to do so?

Not really.
I use quick pins to remove the spreaders for travelling.