'BOAT' needs your help and advice

[BOAT]

What color stain did you use on the wood?

Minus 10 points if not 'peach'!

uH uh . . oh PEACH! Yeah, that's it! peach!

I don't like the fake wrapping stickon stuff - I only use the real stuff if I go carbon.

[Russ]

First of all, BOAT, as usual you have done a fantastic job. Your carpenter/fabricating skills are outstanding. Looks great. I am aays awed by your mods.

***Warning Thread Jacking****

The big issue as I stated before is the different chemistry and SOC of the batteries, with 30+ years ago motorhomes it probably did not matter with wet cell batteries and dumb alternator/magnetos etc.

Fast forward to today you have smart sensing, rectified and regulated alternators'
I will try and explain what happens if you have a dumb ignition solenoid setup in today's world which is why those expensive sensing solenoids and even more expensive DC to DC charge controllers have come to be.

You start the day with both batteries at 100% full charge. You start your motor turn on all your toys and motor out of the harbour.
You now start sailing and turn the motor off, start battery is 100% and holding, house battery 100% and failing. Now we sail all day with the toys all on. In my case that could draw up to 10amps/h so after 6 hours I have used 60AH or half my house bank, without any solar to help out . So now we have a start battery at 100% and a house bank at 50%. When I start the engine and combine the two banks in parallel with the dumb solenoid what happens is the smart alternator detects the high voltage of the start battery or averages the voltage of the two and either does not charge or only charges for a very short time before regulating the charging to a low amp float.

So what happens is you start to trickle charge a flat AGM battery which is a no no and just as bad as over charging it.

Forgive the threadjacking here.
I don't understand how the device you posted a link for https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WTAFR84?psc=1
Would be any different. From what I can tell, it's a voltage sensing relay. When the start battery is charging (13+ volts) it engages a relay to combine the two. The wiring diagram seems to be simply combining batteries, not charge circuits unless I just don't get it.



I understand different batt types need to charge differently (eg: Lead acid vs AGM). However I have 2 identical deep cycle batteries. Wouldn't a simple combiner work for me?


--Russ

[BOAT]

If your talking to me ? I did not post that Amazon relay - nor do I understand the newer electronic isolators or how they work, and I also do not use them.

The original old mechanical canister style isolator that I always use from Motorhomes is supposed to isolate the engine battery from the coach battery - all it does it prevent you from draining your engine battery while your camping. I think it only allows the coach battery to get a charge when the engine is running.

Not sure - I do not use the electronic kind - I always use the old fashioned round canister mechanical one (for over 40 years) because it's bulletproof and always works.

[Sumner]

....nor do I understand the newer electronic isolators or how they work, and I also do not use them.....

The difference is that the type you are using connects the batteries any time the 'key' is on regardless of if anything is charging either of the batteries.

The newer ones like the one in the link only connect the batteries when their is a charging source that is above 13 volts on either battery. You can have the start battery charging off the outboard. When it sees 13+ volts on the start battery it will connect the house batteries and charge them also. If you have a solar panel connected to the house batteries or any other charging source when the source goes above 13 volts it will also charge the start battery if needed.

It is all automatic and these are sealed units that can operate where their might be gas fumes and have hardly any chance at corroding. I to have used the 'canister' type in the past but wouldn't want to use one on the boat. The new ones aren't that expensive and offer so much more than the 'canister type'.



Above is the Blue Seas 7610 combiner (ACR) that is installed on the Endeavour. More on the install here and it is easy...

http://1fatgmc.com/boat/end-1/endeavour ... age-5.html

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[BOAT]

....nor do I understand the newer electronic isolators or how they work, and I also do not use them.....

The difference is that the type you are using connects the batteries any time the 'key' is on regardless of if anything is charging either of the batteries.

The newer ones like the one in the link only connect the batteries when their is a charging source that is above 13 volts on either battery. You can have the start battery charging off the outboard. When it sees 13+ volts on the start battery it will connect the house batteries and charge them also. If you have a solar panel connected to the house batteries or any other charging source when the source goes above 13 volts it will also charge the start battery if needed.

It is all automatic and these are sealed units that can operate where their might be gas fumes and have hardly any chance at corroding. I to have used the 'canister' type in the past but wouldn't want to use one on the boat. The new ones aren't that expensive and offer so much more than the 'canister type'.



Above is the Blue Seas 7610 combiner (ACR) that is installed on the Endeavour. More on the install here and it is easy...

http://1fatgmc.com/boat/end-1/endeavour ... age-5.html

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Yeah Sumner, I never see the canister type on boats - yet the canister types are still installed on some motorhomes even today!!

I think the main reason people don't use the canister type on boats is because they work on gravity - the instructions say they can't be mounted sideways of upside down - I think when the engine is running the solenoid pulls upwards to connect the two batteries together - also the weight of the solenoid will not allow the contact to pull all they way up unless there is enough voltage - it's all balanced with a spring. It's all 1940's WW2 technology.

I guess a gravity operated device would be sort of lame on a boat where things are never level.

I dunno, right now I have that perko thing everyone has, and the meters I just put in so I can see how the batteries are doing. Someday if i add all that solar stuff some of you guys have I will ask for help to put in the electronic relays and chargers and all that other stuff - but without a solar system I guess I will just go with what I have now. The perko thing.

Now I can watch TV or movies or plot navigation and monitor batteries and still be where the beer and food is even when the wife is spending all that time doing whatever women do in the bathroom for all that time because she gets the entire front of the boat to do her thing in the morning and I can still get to everything else:

[Sumner]

.....I dunno, right now I have that perko thing everyone has

I use the ACR on the Endeavour since it does have a dedicated start battery and a larger house bank of 6 volt batteries. All the charging sources on the Endeavour (Alternator, Solar Panels and 120v/12v charger) go to the house bank of batteries and the ACR keeps the start battery up. On the Mac I don't use one, since I have the house bank of two 6 volt batteries, that is also the start batteries for the outboard.

I have a separate bank of two 12 volt batteries that charge as a 24 volt bank and can be used for the 24 volt trolling motor, which I haven't played with much to this point. I do use those batteries as part of the house bank but to do that....



... I throw two switches in the evening and those switches convert the 24 volt bank to two 12 volt batteries in parallel and connects them to the main house bank made up of the two 6 volt batteries. For the night then I have a large bank that is about 400 amp/hrs and since I don't pull it down that much with the fridge running off and on all the batteries stay healthier.

There is no universal solution for all of us ,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[BOAT]

Wow - Sumner, you guys do like a live aboard to me - with all that luxury I could live there - no need for a house!
As a kid lived on the boat with my Dad and my Mom and my little sister for 3 to 4 weeks at a time and we were over in Catalina or other Channel Islands at least once every month for a weekend. But when I was 18 I left home and my sailing days were few and far between after that. I did not get much exposure to all the modern stuff till recently. I was raising the kid and trying to make ends meet with one lousy income in a really expensive place called North County San Diego. Except for a few rare voyages with family or friends with boats, prior to that the last time I was sailing was in the 70's before solar and cell phones even existed! (No internet! No cable TV!) Electricity on the sailboat was never considered very important and we used to pull a rope to start the motor. The food was in an ice chest full of ice. From my age of 13 to 16 we were sailing almost every week of the year in SoCal and Mexico. My teachers sent notes to my parents because I was missing so much school. We never even thought about electricity and to us the only batteries we stressed over was the D-cells you put in a flashlight. We did not even get a marine band radio until the late 70's and it was a radio shack handheld. It was bigger than a brick.

Man, things have really changed - I'm gonna need some help if I am going to ever catch up with you guys on this electricity stuff.

[sailboatmike]

Good news for you boat, the electrons still move through the wire in the same way they always did

Its a great time now, most technology is so cheap. solar panels, led lights even little fridges

[BOAT]

Good news for you boat, the electrons still move through the wire in the same way they always did

Its a great time now, most technology is so cheap. solar panels, led lights even little fridges

I need some help on those "little Fridges" things - don't know what size or how much power I need - not sure if I should even get one.

[sailboatmike]

Good news for you boat, the electrons still move through the wire in the same way they always did

Its a great time now, most technology is so cheap. solar panels, led lights even little fridges

I need some help on those "little Fridges" things - don't know what size or how much power I need - not sure if I should even get one.

From the other forums I frequent they say they draw about 4amps and actually run for around 4 or 5 hours a day depending on the outside temp. That is for a compressor driven fridge, the thermoelectrics draw slightly less but run much longer.

I have a 22 liter WACO thermoelectric which isnt big enough and isnt economical enough on power so I will sell it and buy a compressor driven unit

[BOAT]

Good news for you boat, the electrons still move through the wire in the same way they always did

Its a great time now, most technology is so cheap. solar panels, led lights even little fridges

I need some help on those "little Fridges" things - don't know what size or how much power I need - not sure if I should even get one.

From the other forums I frequent they say they draw about 4amps and actually run for around 4 or 5 hours a day depending on the outside temp. That is for a compressor driven fridge, the thermoelectrics draw slightly less but run much longer.

I have a 22 liter WACO thermoelectric which isnt big enough and isnt economical enough on power so I will sell it and buy a compressor driven unit

I would like to start a new thread on electric fridges - it's another technology that has left me in the dust and a lot of guys like you (sailboatmike), and Sumner and others are up to date and there is so much we can learn from you guys.

If I started a new thread just for reefers you think the guys would respond?

[sailboatmike]

Geeez mate, Im hardly up to date, like you I find the whole electronics thing is a bit scarey but there are some excellent youtube videos on the subject and of course some great advice of forums like this.

I just gather information and if I find something of interest Google it, I have a enquiring mind.

Im amazed by those guys that have built their own autopilots using Arduino boards, looks like it could be fun and as cheap as chips