Spinnaker Performance

[Inquisitor]

Oh!

One more thing...
You can also use the chute scoop to "reef" the spinnaker at some intermediate point. I've never felt the need to slow the boat down going down wind so I'm not sure about the need for this.

[waternwaves]

for our size boats......

and if you dont have all of your spinnaker control lines and guys run aft......(which could allow you to fly a chute singlehanded)

There is not much labor saved flying the spinnaker from a chute scoop vs. launching from the front hatch. JMHO

I have an ATN scoop on one of the boats.

I always felt that the scoop was more of an advantage for dousing, however, the mac asym is pretty easy to douse directly into the hatch. A few seconds hauled hand over hand and its done.

[sailor141]

I'm thinking of getting the factory spinnaker. How fast will it move the boat in the right conditions?

[sailor141]

OOPS. Didn't see all the other posts before replying. It seems the spinnaker is worth the money. I didn't even think about needing a chute. Anyone live near Washington NC? It would be nice to get some experience on another Mac X with the spinnaker.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Ive surfed mine a couple times but I havent had enough control to look at the GPS - Im guessing burst of 9-10 knots

It will take you to hull speed really quickly on a deep or broad reach of course.

Check out both the factory spin (I have this one, its very light weight) and some of the upmarket ones too.

[Inquisitor]

I'm thinking of getting the factory spinnaker. How fast will it move the boat in the right conditions?

Don't want to sound like a broken record... but don't want you to be disappointed either. If you’re expecting the spinnaker to give you some “new” ultimate top speed, you’re looking for a disappointment. Hull speed is an extremely high hurdle. Just like breaking the speed of sound… it takes a LOT more power. Wikipedia does a pretty good job of explaining it… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed

Aside - Only the Iron Genny will get you up on plane (reliably) and above hull speed. Yes, there are people who have surfed down waves into double digits and maybe other freak bursts, but I don’t believe anyone claims they can drive their X or M to plane at will. The best I’ve been able to do with or without the spinnaker was 8.2 knots. Just note how much power is required when bringing your X on plane with the engine. The spinnaker isn’t going to supply that much horse power. Sorry!

IT WILL, HOWEVER, Nearly double your downwind speed as long as that is below hull speed… which is around 7.5 knots.

[Inquisitor]

for our size boats......

and if you dont have all of your spinnaker control lines and guys run aft......(which could allow you to fly a chute singlehanded)

There is not much labor saved flying the spinnaker from a chute scoop vs. launching from the front hatch. JMHO

I have an ATN scoop on one of the boats.

I always felt that the scoop was more of an advantage for dousing, however, the mac asym is pretty easy to douse directly into the hatch. A few seconds hauled hand over hand and its done.

Hate to aire my dirty laundry… but if it will save someone some heartache…

Having never flown a spinnaker and with no one (in person) with experience to guide me I had a disaster on my first attempt. A lot of boats had theirs up on the lake so I gave it a try. With the admiral at the helm, I launched it with a mighty pop and I felt like I was off to the races. Until I thought about eventually running out of water (shore) and needing to control it. Well somewhere in my exuberance I got the sheet rapped around the prop (damn! still down in the water and somewhere in there I had started the engine until it ground to a halt with the line synched tight) and couldn’t reach it to even cut it. Tried veering off wind and that nearly put the mast in the water so I straitened back down wind. I was going like stink… with my hair on fire. Tack end bolted, Clew tied (out of reach) around the prop left me only one option… I finally had to dump it via dropping the halyard… right into the lake where it filled up with water just as pretty as it had previously filled with air. Having all three ends tied tight, I expected it to explode at any moment! “Knowing” that my conscience wouldn’t allow me to claim warranty failure, I knew I would be eating that $500 spinnaker. With the Admiral present, I knew humble pie would be the desert. Fortunately, I had the presence of mind to rationalize releasing the halyard all the way through the blocks to allow it to release the dam full of water it was holding. Getting the main down and the boat still, I slowly untangled the mess and stowed it down below. Coming back up with my tail between my legs, the Admiral didn’t say one word about it and we sailed along the rest of the day (slowly) in peaceful bliss.

Well, one of the magazines I get has a story section and a “what I did right” and “what I did wrong”. WELL, I’m here to tell you I screwed the pooch ten ways to Monday! So, I’ll just go with WHAT I LEARNED!

1) I NEED(ED) the Chutescoop. IMO, WaternWaves… you are far more experienced than I. Even now, I would feel comfortable with the prospect of launching and dowsing it without the scoop, but for anyone who never has done it, I say it’s invaluable… worth every penny of its $100. If it had been on there during my fiasco, I could have simply dowsed it without any drama. Even though comfortable in the prospect, I will never launch one on any boat without a chutescoop. I’ll just watch in admiration as someone else launches theirs.
2) If the sheet is not releasable… there is no good way to depower it quickly. It’s not like going up wind and you simply point at the wind to depower the main. Any direction but strait down wind then adds the excitement of massive heeling!
3) Doyle sails are indestructible! I was pleasantly surprised that the factory Doyle sail lived through it. It had no right to be in one piece. Considering I just recently saw another brand blow out in 6 knots of wind, I’m a firm believer in the Doyle sails. There may be better sails out there, but I doubt there are stronger (idiot proof) sails out there! I have flown it for many pleasant hours since with no visible signs of undue stress.
4) THEY ARE REAL FUN!

[Scott]

That sounds like an exciting 3 or 4 minute drill.

I am however confused as to how you managed to get the sheet down around the prop. Its on the other end of the boat you know? I have been flying spinnakers longer than I remember, (come from a sailing family) and have still managed to have a few asses and elbows drills myself. Don't feel too bad. If it didn't kill you it will only make you stronger. Your missus will no doubt retain that mental video for years to come and recount it to all interested parties at all family functions for the remainder of your life and possibly a few years after.

Side bar note. Dont use a metal snap shackle on the clew of an Asym Spin. It will beat you to death if you get the sail flogging.

I read this somewhere, yeah..........thats it.......I read that somewhere!!!

[Inquisitor]

I am however confused as to how you managed to get the sheet down around the prop.

Well Scott, I think it was F.M.
I see your confusion that comes from logic and I sit here now and totally understand your point of view... being well versed in logic... I'm scratching my ass trying to get blood up to the head... to come up with an answer for you. So here goes...

I'm betting it was the loose sheet. Since it went around the front of the forestay, and I had it too loose, it fell below the hull and looped around the prop... I at least dilligently had the daggerboard up for speed sake. I've had the loose one fall under the hull several times since... so I'm betting on that answer as far as the prop. But that leaves me with the ability to cut the tight one at the cleat. Hmmm... maybe I didn't have my knife, ax, broadsword handy... yeah, that must be it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Its one (large) gray area in my CF bin.

Edited: I also had a stop knot at the VERY end of the line syched up tight against the cleat... kind with a SS loop that won't let the stop knot go through. Nother lesson learned.

My Mother says I have a privateer in my family tree that I must be hark'n back to... but the last couple of generations have been land locked, land lubbers.

[Scott]

My Mother says I have a privateer in my family tree that I must be hark'n back to... but the last couple of generations have been land locked, land lubbers.

Ok refresher course... PDF, Sunscreen and Broadsword. Never leave the dock without it.

[Trouts Dream]

I have used my spinaker every chance I get and the chute scoop is worth way more than $100 in the speed that a flogging spinaker can be doused.
Since I use it so much I have left a set of sheets attached to a tack line at the front and running back to the cockpit. When I NEED to use the spinaker I connect the clew to the sheets, the tack to the tack line and raise the sausage that is the chute scoop. Biggest advantage is all lines and everything can be checked before releasing the beast. If you ever try to correct a crossed line when the spin is full you'll know what I mean.
With this set up I have been able to fly the sin 8 ft off the deck and it not only looks great but if you have soemwhat shifting winds it doesn't pull the nose all over the place (well not as much) the other advantage is a second release point (I can throw off the tack line if needed. I had one time the sheets got tangled and rather than cut a line I just threw off the tack line.
One other note of caution.
When the Admiral suggests that maybe its too windy for the spinnaker, its probably a good time to check the level of testosterone running through the veins. Just a few whitecaps and it would have been a quick run home down wind. I told her no problems and raised everything. When I lifted the chute scoop, the sinnaker filled so fast it sounded like a whip cracking. The Admiral, trooper that she is, tried to let out the sheet for better control (it was sheeted too short initially) and another gust literally tore the sheet from her hands. She ended up with second degree burns and torn skin so bad that she missed a week of work as a nurse. Thank goodness for the chute scoop to quickly bag the sail so I could attend to more pressing matters.
Two things are different on the boat now. We both have sailing gloves when handling lines and sheets especially in high winds, and I do listen a bit more when the Admiral says "are you sure that will be all right"

[Inquisitor]

When the Admiral suggests...
and I do listen a bit more when the Admiral says "are you sure that will be all right"

Amen!


Even with all good experiences with the spinnaker since that first time and I don't run it in high winds or off axis with her on board, I still get the admiral's anxiety when the spinnaker goes up.

[Rick Westlake]

My Mother says I have a privateer in my family tree that I must be hark'n back to... but the last couple of generations have been land locked, land lubbers.

Ok refresher course... PDF, Sunscreen and Broadsword. Never leave the dock without it.

Don't forget eyepatch, flintlock pistols, and parrot on shoulder. Peg-leg is optional and you don't want that option.

(My "Beija-Flor" was so small that I only had room for a hummingbird on my shoulder. )

[Inquisitor]

... Since I use it so much I have left a set of sheets attached to a tack line at the front and running back to the cockpit. When I NEED to use the spinaker I connect the clew to the sheets, the tack to the tack line and raise the sausage that is the chute scoop.

hull of a system! I've got to get me one of these tack lines and quick release clews!

[delevi]

Scott,

Have you ever tried pushing the tack to windward with a pole to sail further off the wind before the main blankets the spinnaker? I race on a freind's catalina 42 wihch uses a 1200 sq ft A-spinn. The boat is also equiped with conventional, mast-mounted spinnaker pole. When deep reaching, we use the pole on the tack and pull th epole to windward with a guy...flying it almost like a symetrical. We can go just about dead down wind like this. Almost looks like we're wing-on-wing, but we're not. I'm thinking about trying this with a whisker pole, lashing it to the windward bow rail and feeding the tack line through that. I'm figuring one can gain 20-25 degrees further down wind, but concnerned if the flimsy forespar pole can handle the load. Not many chances for me to fly the kite, but heading to Lake Tahoe for Jul 4 Hoping to have some nice spinnaker runs there.

http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj25 ... I_4217.flv



Few years back in Tahoe