26M Mast Blown Down

[DaveB]

Terry, First thing I did when I bought my used MacX 3 years ago was to change the forestay to 5/32. I have the CDI 2 furler and could have gone to 3/16 headstay but that would have been over kill and the furler would be very tight on the Stay.
Headstays on most Sailboats I have seen and owned is usually 1 size larger than side stays, Mac. thinks it should be one size under.
Totally disagree and when lowers and uppers are stock 5/32 on the side stays so should the forestay or even one size larger 3/16.

Dave

I upgraded my forestay from 4/32 to 5/32 and the turnbuckle from 1/4 to 5/16 as well. I had to increase the forestay to accommodate a Shaefer Snapfurler CF700 so I beefed up the turnbuckle too. It is only an extra 1/32 of an inch which makes it the same size as the four shrouds that are pulling against it which makes it more equal. I cannot understand why the factory would not make the forestay the same strength as the shrouds given there are four big bully shrouds ganging up on the forestay. It is not expensive to do and any rigging shop will do it and it does provide for more peace of mind. I now have a spare forestay which I may have another use for.

[eddy]

Just wondering.
If you add a second forestay from the top of the mast down, don't you restrict the functionality of the backstay (in case of an X)?

[Hamin' X]

I think that if you calculate the angles and force of the shrouds (beyond my engineering ability after 3 fingers of Wild Turkey), you will find that they do not exceed the capability of the forestay, or Roger would not still be in business. However, if you increase the size of the forestay, you will need to increase the tension to prevent shock loading, possibly exceeding the limits of the shrouds. Danger Will Robinson. I'm sure that opinions will differ, however.

~Rich

[Divecoz]

Not to agree or dis----agree with anyone on this .. just to say... There Is a LOT of engineering that goes into this or any boat of this type ( sail) or size..
Just bumping the size of things up "could " have some very negative Ramifications ....down the road, down the chain, of effects.. Maybe , maybe not?
In the end, its yours to play with as you see fit..
Its times like these that it would be nice, if someone with expertise from Macgregor would step in and offer up, why they did as they did, or do as they do..
BUT Thatssssssssss Not going to happen.

[Terry]

Its times like these that it would be nice, if someone with expertise from Macgregor would step in and offer up, why they did as they did, or do as they do..
BUT Thatssssssssss Not going to happen.

What does that tell you about the company????
I notice BWY or Mike Inmon or Kelly Hanson are quick to jump in when their rep is on the line.
Does the factory even read this forum? Know it exists? I believe it is an extremely good product feedback resource, something other manufacturers would die for.

[Catigale]

It tells you they are smart...

From their perspective, its a no win..if they admit to adoption a cost model, they degrade the boat in the eyes of everyone. If they adopt the 'larger is safer" approach, they disenfranchise all who bought the boat stock.

Was the boat misrepresented to any of us who bought it? I dont think so.

Is it possible to improve the margins of safety on the boat in terms of rigging? Yes.

[Highlander]

Just wondering.
If you add a second forestay from the top of the mast down, don't you restrict the functionality of the backstay (in case of an X)?

Nope I'm their now 5 forestays from the masthead down three are removable at anytime even while sailing & an ajustable backstay on a traveller !

J

[Divecoz]

Point taken... No Winning For them..

It tells you they are smart...

From their perspective, its a no win..if they admit to adoption a cost model, they degrade the boat in the eyes of everyone. If they adopt the 'larger is safer" approach, they disenfranchise all who bought the boat stock.

Was the boat misrepresented to any of us who bought it? I dont think so.

Is it possible to improve the margins of safety on the boat in terms of rigging? Yes.

[Russ]

I notice BWY or Mike Inmon or Kelly Hanson are quick to jump in when their rep is on the line.
Does the factory even read this forum? Know it exists? I believe it is an extremely good product feedback resource, something other manufacturers would die for.

I think Roger has an Apple IIe.

For my semi-annual rant on Macgregor's technology savy. I know he sells every boat he can make (even in a bad economy) so marketing isn't important. But if it were my company, I'd hire someone to be my creative expert. The factory web site is a joke. The content is outdated and uses Frontpage 4 from 1996. At least they photoshopped the wood trim from the windows. Mike Inmon pops in but he doesn't work FOR the factory. The factory has little if any web presence. Ever look at other boat manufacturer's sites. Most are fantastic with virtual tours etc. Mac's latest addition is video of Mike's wild ride in the gale with his son.
I've heard complaints that this cheesy web presence contributes to the bashing Macs get from non-owners and those looking to resell their Macs.

Rog. doesn't have to comment on construction and such, but surely there's someone at the factory who could field comments without causing a lawsuit or PR catastrophe.

/rant



--Russ

[Terry]

I think that if you calculate the angles and force of the shrouds (beyond my engineering ability after 3 fingers of Wild Turkey), you will find that they do not exceed the capability of the forestay, or Roger would not still be in business. However, if you increase the size of the forestay, you will need to increase the tension to prevent shock loading, possibly exceeding the limits of the shrouds. Danger Will Robinson. I'm sure that opinions will differ, however.

~Rich

Yes Rich opinions do differ...
When I hold my oem forestay up alongside my replacement 5/32 wire & 5/16 turnbuckle the oem looks like a joke, if I hold my upgraded replacement alongside some of the other similar sized sailboats at my marina it looks like a joke. The rigging and mast on most all other boats in the 24'-28' range are much more robust. I also doubt one single 5/32 forestay can over power or exceed the limits of four shrouds of the same caliber, that is a 4:1 ratio, just isn't going to happen, and as Dave B said most other boats have a forestay of equal size or larger than the shrouds.

As for Mac Factory being in a no win situation, well what can you say when someone paints themselves into a corner. I would not call that smart.

[dennisneal]

I'm not an engineer. But, I would think that the expected forces acting upon the forestay cable would be much less than the tensile breaking point of the factory forestay.

It seems to me that this failure is due to either salt water corrosion, or abrasion. I don't think that a larger cable would solve the problem.

[Catigale]

Exactly Dennis...it failed under either corrosion or fatigue, not tension

The last laugh Roger gets is that he has been in business making boats in this niche longer than the rest of the market....combined...

[rfrye94760]

It tells you they are smart...

Was the boat misrepresented to any of us who bought it? I dont think so.

Well, as I've posted in the past, the only time my 2010 M with an Etec 60 will see 24mph is on it's trailer. Misrepresentation or just a big fat lie? Best speed? On flat water, myself and 8 year old on board, one 6 gal. tank...19.8mph per GPS.

[Hamin' X]

Yes Rich opinions do differ...
When I hold my oem forestay up alongside my replacement 5/32 wire & 5/16 turnbuckle the oem looks like a joke, if I hold my upgraded replacement alongside some of the other similar sized sailboats at my marina it looks like a joke. The rigging and mast on most all other boats in the 24'-28' range are much more robust. I also doubt one single 5/32 forestay can over power or exceed the limits of four shrouds of the same caliber, that is a 4:1 ratio, just isn't going to happen, and as Dave B said most other boats have a forestay of equal size or larger than the shrouds.

As for Mac Factory being in a no win situation, well what can you say when someone paints themselves into a corner. I would not call that smart.

This would be true, IF the angles were the same. They are not, so it does not follow.

~Rich

[Divecoz]

I have No Doubt In My Mind that a 26 M can do 24 MPH with a ETEC 60..
2 cases ...first hand..
I competed in Cross Country Ski Racing .. I was the Only ....Competitor I was aware of, Racing....One ANY brand of Nylon Fish Scale ski's and Regularly Placing.. What few pictures, that were ever taken of me, always showed the Brand of ski I used on one ski and the Nylon fish scales on the other.
My skis unlike most novice skiers were as clean and sharp as the day they left the factory.. Go Figure
My Brother was sponsored BY OSSA . He and other team members made those Tweaked... Entirely Legal to Race , Machines ...do what few if any others could make them do.. But we did everything we said / they said, we did....Those Pictures.... Mine, His, Theirs, sold a lot ..of Moto Cross Bikes and Ski's !
ON EDIT:
Though it is a Mercury 75 4 stroke..running at only 4000 RPM ...WOT is close to 5600 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bn47Z6U9HE
I suspect 1 or more of the following..
1. Over loaded
2. Wrong Prop
3. That ETEC is not running right or lacks torque

It tells you they are smart...
Was the boat misrepresented to any of us who bought it? I dont think so.

Well, as I've posted in the past, the only time my 2010 M with an Etec 60 will see 24mph is on it's trailer. Misrepresentation or just a big fat lie? Best speed? On flat water, myself and 8 year old on board, one 6 gal. tank...19.8mph per GPS.