Better than X or M is the Corsair 36 trailerable!

[Chip Hindes]

Telstar's ama can be quickly retracted. If it were on its side though, the drop would be severe. Even so, if the mast had flotation & sails were free, once the down-side ama was folded, it seems the 3000# hull might want to right itself.

Unless you have some seriously oversized mast floatation (i.e., one of those monster styrofoam balls like on the original Venture cats) it won't stay on its side, because it's not stable in that position. It will either roll back upright (lucky you) or turtle (uh oh). Once it's turtled, I believe the only hope would be folding one ama to reduce the moment arm, then flooding the unfolded one as ballast to help you in righting it. Don't even know if this is possible. Once you got it back upright, you would reextend the folded ama, weight it to stabilize the boat, and start pumping or bailing the other ama.

I admit, an improbable solution.

My first and only previous boat was a Hobie 14, sailed off the windward side of Oahu. It was a rare sailing day I didn't roll it at least once. I could easily right it singlehanded with my (in those days) 175 lbs, but the boat weighs 210 lbs. I don't think even my greatly increased current weight of 225 would help much in attempting to right over 4000 lbs of Telstar. Maybe with some help from a good sized powerboat?

I really like this boat, though. The Mast 28 seems nice as well, but it's just not enough bigger than my Mac to make me consider it, and probably no faster.

Never seen either one in person.

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

Wisconsin (and I would guess a lot of other states) now allows a tow vehicle to tow two trailers.
How about towing one Mac on its trailer, with a hitch installed on it towing another Mac on its trailer.
After launching them (it?), connect the two hulls together, and you have a catamaran.
Maybe I should check with mighetto and see what he thinks.

[Moe]

Mighetto already thinks a single Mac is a trimaran. That makes what you're proposing a SEXmaran. That's gotta come with wenches!

--
Moe

[DLT]

Bill,

Is that a configuration you want to warranty?

If so, it might be worth keeping my kids from killing each other, or me tossing them overboard...

[Mark Prouty]

Can't contribute here but a truely excellent discussion. Frank, I fell for the Telstar but I think I could buy into Jeff Ritsema's monohull argument especially with his experience with a "foldable" 30' trimaran. I had a Hobie Cat once although much smaller then 28', it did "stumble" if the waves got too big.

1) Multihulls sail FLAT: I really missed the motion of the monohull; I mean, it is really different. I found it exhilarating at first, and then I found it actually less appealing because of the "flat" motion. The speed was unimportant without the motion, for me. It was a GREAT light air boat, to its credit, and is probably its single most important redeeming quality for me. Also, as seas approched 4', this boat took a real beating, chiefly because the multihulls skip across the top of the waves, not really displacing them as is true of a monohull. A lot more to handle and more risk of failures in heavier weather.
2) The cabin space is very small, even on a 30 footer. The Telstar is much the same, even smaller than mine. For me it was a big trade off for the lost cabin space of a monohull. The Tri's are not a "family" boat, in my opinion. OK for 2 people. I should point out, however, that they do have significant entertaining space for guests, if that's what you do.
3) These boats have LARGE sail plans and masts. Mine was promoted as a mast that could be stepped without a crane- I tried it- once. That was it. I could ramp launch it but found it beyond my limits to self step.
4) My boat was average under power- had a 30 HP outboard- could do 7-8 Kts. The Telstar was initially being promoted as a high speed motoring boat (15-20 kts). I think they have backed off that a bit, though it is faster than mine was designed to power.

Mighetto already thinks a single Mac is a trimaran. That makes what you're proposing a SEXmaran. That's gotta come with wenches!

--
Moe

Watch out Moe!

[Frank C]

Actually, I understand Jeff's points on the monohull too. I've been on my cousin's motorcat crossing the Chesapeake and it really pounds at 8 knots. I've never sailed on a multi, but it's easy to contemplate that their flat "skimming" feel is completely unlike the "sailing" we've come to know.

Just can't give up that idea yet of 15 knots, both sail and motor. I'll get a ride on the Telstar later this spring.

[Moe]

You mean your Suzuki won't do 15 knots? We all know an X does 17 mph under sail!

[Jeff Ritsema]

One other thought to pass along: The tri does not point as high as a monohull, requiring you to bear off quite a bit to get the optimum boat speed, although this is compensated by the increased boat speed. The actual VMG to the destination may not be a whole lot better than a good sailing monohull, upwind. Of course, the pointing ability of the Mac and my Mast is not all that great either, though better than the tri.
Downwind or on a reach, these multihulls really fly. And they sail well in light air. They also have shallow draft with the board up, similar to the Mac.

Before buying a foldable tri, take a serious look at the cabin space, the trailerability, the ease of stepping the mast, the ease of single handling, the speed under power (realistically), and spend some time sailing on one before buying. Also, keep in mind that all of the accessory sailing gear that you WILL buy, costs significantly more, given the higher performance demands of a boat like this.
I don't mean to discourage, only share my experience and thoughts.
Jeff

[Frank C]

Jeff,
If you ever get to Annapolis during reasonable weather, I'm sure the Telstar folks would offer you a ride. It would be great to get your feedback.

Apparently they have designed and patented a novel mast lifting rig, and if you watch their on-line video you'll see them quoting pretty close pointing angles.

Moe, yeah my Suzuki can go faster than 15 kn, but the boat won't sail that fast. I never use the motor for more than that speed, so the Telstar still has terrrific alure.

[Scott]

Not an entirely new thread or train of thought

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... highlight=

[Jeff Ritsema]

Frank,
I looked at the Telstar, seriously, before buying the Mast 28. Couple of final thoughts. When you finally get the boat fully outfitted: motor, all sails, canvas, electronics, trailer, motor, refrigeration, added electrical, added plumbing and head, heating, taxes, and etc, etc, etc, I came up with around $100,000- now keep in mind that I tend go a little overboard, and you can certainly do it for less, but that is the figure I came up with. I was impressed with the mast raising system and very impressed with the engineering of the ama retraction and stowage for trailering. The cockpits on these boats are actually not bad since they have an open transom and " feel" larger, though the real added space is out on the windward tramps and amas. Another point to keep in mind, in a blow and seas, these boats tend to kick up a bit more spray. You need your foulies a bit more when at the tiller (not a wheel); I actually prefer the feel of a tiller to a wheel, but that is a different subject.
Bottom line, I prefer the "sailing" time on the monohull. Though slower, it feels more like I am "part of the water" - guess it's part of that "prenatal float" that brings me back. I found that even though I got there faster on the tri, I didn't really notice or appreciate it after a while and got kind of bored with it.
I'm getting kid of negative and don't really want to at the risk of discouraging what might be an absolutely thrilled tri buyer, after the fact.
Examine your needs, your waters, your pocketbook, and , by all means, sail on one. Your first impressions will be exhilarating.
Jeff

[Frank C]

I looked at the Telstar, seriously, before buying the Mast 28.
* I was impressed with the mast raising system and
* very impressed with the engineering of the ama retraction
* cockpits on these boats ... have an open transom and " feel" larger
* in a blow and seas, these boats tend to kick up a bit more spray
* even though I got there faster on the tri, I didn't really notice or appreciate it
* by all means, sail on one. Your first impressions will be exhilarating.

I understand that accomodations are less than a Mac, but as mentioned elsewhere - TRIPLE the sailing speed! I agree that it's a couple's boat - with its 360* views and the bonus of a real, stand-up head and shower, that's plenty for me.

I've seen how smoothly the amas fold, which is almost surreal. I didn't see the mast raising in action but it looked like it would be pretty good too. Tony Smith claims that the ride is surprising dry, simply because the ama mechanism blocks the spray. That makes me wonder if it would pound in chop even more than most multihulls. I can sense your point about faster not necessarily being better, but I'll need to get that ride to feel it.

Great feedback! ... thanks, Jeff!