Tow weight of 26M heavily laden for remote area cruise

[Phil M]

I Agree with that, having left my mast at home once this summer. Launching and putting it back on the trailer was a breeze. If I could leave my brain at home, I could have been another powerboater.

[bartmac]

The basic design of the Mac X or M means the thing is not useable other than daysailing.....like caravan with nothing in it.So the problem that the empty weight of a x/m brings the trailer to overladen state if you pack more than a cut lunch is obvious.(well actually not obvious but became so after a visit to weighbridge)Any other additions will immediately create problem...so be it.There's really no other boats out there that do what the Mac does.....however as we have found out the cost of the standard Mac is only the beginning....by the time you add the essentials to make full use of a boat which lends itself to staying onboard you create a mass which a standard trailer and normal car will not handle LEGALLY.....different jurisdiction will allow different tow weight but on the whole towing something 2500kgs or there abouts will require an expenditure beyond the standard car,suv or passenger vehicle....we have probably all looked at our wallets and realised owning a boat is like standing under a shower ripping up hundred dollar bills....If the calculation or equation had been done prior to buying our Mac and subsequent expenditure....probably cheaper to rent/hire a bare boat a couple of times a year BUT the personalising of "our" Mac has been fun not just the sailing but also the tinkering.The funny thing is we went thru the same thing with a slide on camper....by the time it had everything we wanted...not luxury....water, batteries, solar panels,compost toilet,led lighting,outside roll out awning,hot water system etc etc mostly things to make life pleasant....but gee does the weight add up......o well happy wife happy life

[Boblee]

Yeah Oskar/Bartmac been preaching that everyone should weigh their rigs regularly for years here and your weights are consistent with mine but we uncouple the boat on the weighbridge to check weights.
Most of our food/water etc is carried in the tow vehicle when travelling and we add as needed water usually in 20l lots, fuel is only added just prior to launch as is all food and 200l of water, we travel lightly with clothes and for bedding we use swags on the rear berth which can be removed to camp out when hot or to do short trips, the barby is easily demountable and has legs for use when traveling.
Usually carry 200l of fuel in truck and at least 100l of fresh water, the dinghy 3.6m and motor on trailer complete with all fishing gear sits inside the truck, the solar panels vary depending on where we are but sometimes left on arch and others left in truck but they are usually portable when camping on land with a long lead so the boat can park in shade (if available).
Our little Dyna only has a 4.2l deisel motor but pulls the boat faster than I want to travel and usually average about 6k/l we also carry two spare truck tyres and two spare trailer tyres the trucks are 16x12ply so heavy.

Bartmac as to the extra costs of equipping the boat you are right on with many of the prospective buyers put off when we are asking only just above comparable bare boats but did estimate that if I hadn't done all the work myself it would conservatively be over $120,000 and the bare boat was almost the same price as a bare boat today.
This is our setup just prior to last trip you can just make out the dinghy inside the plastic containers are full of food and we won't go into the amount of spares and tools carried not just because it's super dear in remote places but more because it's either unavailable or not the brands we like 200l fuel drum is just behind cabin and across the back are four jerry cans with petrol usually not filled untill we know it will either be very dear or a long way between servo's.
Eg between Adelaide and Alice or Alice to Katherine some real ripoffs although Tenant Creek is usually ok but not 3ways, usually stock up food at Tennant Creek too but if going up through QLD need to get right across NSW and next best fuel at MT Isa but from Mt Isa (good) you need to make it last till Tenant Creek or Boroloola if turning off at Barclay Homestead, wouldn't be so bad if it was only a few cents but can be double eg $3.50-$4.00l and when the trip is 5-10,000k's it pays to be a scrooge so you can buy more lures .

[bartmac]

Our little Dyna only has a 4.2l deisel motor but pulls the boat faster than I want to travel and usually average about 6k/l

4.2 4.2 wow ours is only 2.4 turbo(c/w chip) Transit LWB tray and it moves things along quite nicely averaging 80-90k hr...could go faster but not in a hurry...also keeps fuel comsumption down.You'd have the same problem we have at 18.5-19metres long every man and his dog has to overtake

[Boblee]

Crikey that was quick Bartmac we did tow ours with the 2.8l deisel hilux and then with the 3l turbo deisel hilux but the Dyna is a dream to drive, it is geared high and I don't like revving over 2500 rpm which is about 80k's and thats usually better for someone wanting to pass too, mind you have to keep your eyes on the mirror on the stuart hwy with 130k limit although new govt talking of making it unlimited again.
The good thing about the Dyna is it only cost $5,500 or possibly $8,000 after changing backs etc and we have done 30,000 trouble free k's so far except for bloody tyres

[kurz]

Hello
Yes, I worried a lot becouse of the weght written in the papers... Even the new Boat is heavier than it should.

since you put a motor, the stuck trailer is overloaded. This should be explayned in the papers!!!

Finaley (I live in Switzerland, europa) I installed a new double tandem axle. This finally solved all my problems. I still have the orignal alu-frame theat fits good. Since the axles are new I got now 2500kg !!! for the trailer and with cooling box an some staff and 40kg liquids I had 2080kg, and 70kg on the coupler (in EU most of car have 75kg coupler wight, seldom 100 or 150kg).

This sounds perfect. Since I shall not have more than 75kg (100) kg on the couple at my old mercedes 124TD 1998 Station.

But you need a serious factory that puts the new axles and garantees for the 2500kg wight. Now all is legal

The mercedes can take 2050kg, a little overload is not so serious.

And I am thinking of buying the next car a Volkswagen Sharan with 2200kg oder 2400kg as a 4WD.

[RobertB]

I am really interested in why European cars have the 75 kg/150 pound weight limit on the tongue even though they may have a 3300 pound towing capacity (my car). Essentially, in the US, tongue weight is normally 10% of towing capacity, I own a Volvo XC70 and the rated tongue weight is 5% - sounds similar to your situation.

Curious if this is due to the way the vehicles are designed or more to do with regulatory issues.

Like you, I added a second axle to get the tongue loading down - then bought a F-150 pickup truck.

[kurz]

Hello RobertB

Yes, this different tongue weight situation is interesting.

Seems that it works both way

But: If you do not have to much weight you still are saving kg space in the car, makes sense to put the load on the trailer.

On the other hand: You say that much tongue weight is saver.

But: In Germany you even can ride 100km/h with the trailers if you put dampers/shok absorbers to the trailer and if you have ABS in the car... So many people ride even faster than 100km/h of cours... And often it works...

On the other hand we need to have a mechanical park break. So all the hydraulic disk brakes are not allowed here unfortunately...

[RobertB]

Kutz

In Europe, are single axle trailers used? Towing a single axle trailer with a light tongue load can get very unstable. Towing the same tongue weight with a double axle trailer is much easier.

I have towed the same boat both ways with the same car. This car is the Volvo XC70 with every safety and handling feature available (all-wheel drive, anti-lock brakes, DSC/dynamic stability control (spin protection), and the 4-C electronic suspension) - even with all these features, vehicle sticker still rated car about 75 kg (5%).

Realistically, trailer tounge load is primarily dependent upon: load rating of tires, ability of the suspension to take the load, and distribution of weight between front and rear (handling stability). I always minimized the load in the car (people and luggage) when towing the boat. We often drove a second car if the whole family was going.

[kurz]

yes, we also have single axle trailers! but the axles goe till 1800kg (to less for the mac). You can get also higher loads but then they are even heavyer and more expensive than a tandem axle.

to save load in the car makes no sense for me towing a trailer. the more load on the car the better you drive, if you have "automatic high control" on the rear acle of the car, as long you do not oversize the legal load of the car.
I wondered that the very expensive volvo xc90 does tow just 2000kg and has just 75kg tow weight.

[RobertB]

The "automatic high control" I think you are referring to is the Nivomat load leveling struts - had these on a previous Dodge Grand Caravan minivan. The struts really have little to do with the tow capacity. The real limit here is load on the tires thus I kept the load in the car minimum. The biggest difference between my XC-70 and the XC-90 is larger tires on the XC-90 (and optional larger engine). I would not pull a 2000 kg (4400 pound) single axle trailer with only a 75 kg (165 pound) tongue load anything over 50 mph (80 kph) - very unstable doe to the geometry of the trailer - nothing to do with the ability of the vehicle.

I am leaning to just a different set of rules evaluating the towing tongue weight between Europe and USA. I towed with the higher tongue weight and the car was fine (might have contributed to my transmission blowing up but not sure).

[kurz]

Hello Robert
sorry for my English... yes, NIVOMAT was the missing word. Of course a nivomat has nothing to do with the trailer weight, but has a lot to do how good you will ride. If you don't have nivomat an you will overcharge the tongue weight and put much staff in the car, the rear axle of the car goes down and the towing geometry goes very bad!

Of course the bigger the pickup/track for towing you have the better. But it can be done also with a station car. The motor is probably the less important thing. Maybe you will ride slower...

As you said, if you put 250kg on the tongue, the load for a normal station car is almost done with some people in the car.

But as we know all - different countries, different rules...

[raycarlson]

correct tongue wieght is correct tonque wieght, it doesnt matter where in the world your towing or if your pulling with a donkey cart in Istanbul.It's the first parameter you want to set in the towing equation.

[kurz]

correct tongue wieght is correct tonque wieght, it doesnt matter where in the world your towing or if your pulling with a donkey cart in Istanbul.It's the first parameter you want to set in the towing equation.

You may be right. But even when the correct tongue weight is the same anywhere, the local regulations are different. And also: The trailers may be designed differently for the loca. needs

[raycarlson]

possibly there is some misunderstanding of your local regulations, it's hard to imagine a goverment would intentionally wish to harm it's citizens with grossly unsafe regulations such as limiting a tonque wieght to 150 pounds regardless of GVW.I would reccomend checking with some businesses that tow commercially and see what their interperatation of the regulation is.