MacGregorSailors.com

What happens when the wind goes down and the tide goes out? Do you get picked up down by the Brooklyn Bridge .

It takes about 100 days for a boat to float down the Hudson...I bought the bridge from a nice Nigerian fellow off de Internet too!

Sumner wrote:I really should get something like that for the local couple small lakes

As most folks here know, I'll definitely vouch for Boston Whaler Harpoon boats being the singularly best daysailor ever produced. EVER. Once you sail one you'll know why. If anyone's ever down by Phila in good weather I'll take you out in mine - it sails easily and reliably in all conditions, and yet is still almost always the quickest boat on the lake, particularly in light air. And as Steph noted, the hulls are bullet-proof, as well as the hardware which was top-shelf stuff when it was originally produced. They hold their value amazingly well - in fact, I can sell mine now for almost twice what I paid for it over 30 years ago. Not a bad value!!

kmclemore wrote:.. I'll definitely vouch for Boston Whaler Harpoon boats being the singularly best daysailor ever produced. EVER. ...

Looks like a nice boat. How long realistically does it take to set one up at the lake (remember I'm very late' 60's ). I'll look into them. I have been looking at something like the Venture 17 with a small cabin we could overnight 1-2 nights in if we wanted. With the forward Cubby on those looks like we could make a sunbrella enclosure if we want to stay overnight. Any thoughts on that. This would be under good conditions,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

I hate to hijack my own post but I also own a 17 islands which in a copy of the 16 tanzer. The boat takes no time to set up mostly because I can lift the mast up by hand. I will take it to the bay and sail for a few hours and then take it home. I won't put the Mac in unless I have a few days to leave it in. The only thing to look for is that on these boats you are the Ballest and sometimes you have to move fast to the other side or you will be swimming . The Mac feels so stable after I have been sailing the 17 footer. I think Hobie makes the Holder that has a weighted keel on a small boat and that would help. Without that weight in the keel these small boats are fun because they are fast . I also think it's great to learn to sail on a non weighted keel boat because you have to act fast and you feel the boat much more.

Sumner wrote:

kmclemore wrote:.. I'll definitely vouch for Boston Whaler Harpoon boats being the singularly best daysailor ever produced. EVER. ...

Looks like a nice boat. How long realistically does it take to set one up at the lake (remember I'm very late' 60's ). I'll look into them. I have been looking at something like the Venture 17 with a small cabin we could overnight 1-2 nights in if we wanted. With the forward Cubby on those looks like we could make a sunbrella enclosure if we want to stay overnight. Any thoughts on that. This would be under good conditions,

Sum

Realistically, you can have the whole thing set up and sailing in less than 30 minutes, and that's REALLY taking your time. I can do it alone in 15 minutes and I'm 56.

The cuddy on the 5.2 is kinda small and there's really not much room to bunk even with a canopy/enclosure, so I would only recommend that if you were a teenager (they can sleep ANYWHERE). The 5.2 came with or without a cuddy, BTW, so if you look for one be aware what you're buying.

If you want to overnight the best BW Harpoon to get is the 6.2. Plenty of room below for an overnight and although they have a keel, they sail every bit as well as the smaller boats. 6.2's are very thin on the ground though, and people that own them rarely want to sell them [yes, they are THAT good, like the rest of the Harpoons], so finding a good one for sale is tough.

Go here to learn everything you ever wanted to know about BW Harpoon sailboats: http://www.ruach.net/Harpoon.shtml

Boston Whaler Harpoon 6.4:



I have a 4.6, which I personally think is the fastest and most nimble of the fleet...

Sum..there was a thread on one of the whaler boards about outfitting the 5.2 for weekending.

Cuddy sleeping would be tight as KM says, you would need a boom tent to keep the cabin dry. I wrestled so long debating the assets of the 4.6 5.2 and 6.2 that I bought one of each. There was a 6.2 one for sale in VA last fall IIRC...this is a hard boat to find.

Catigale wrote:Sum..there was a thread on one of the whaler boards about outfitting the 5.2 for weekending.

Cuddy sleeping would be tight as KM says, you would need a boom tent to keep the cabin dry. I wrestled so long debating the assets of the 4.6 5.2 and 6.2 that I bought one of each. There was a 6.2 one for sale in VA last fall IIRC...this is a hard boat to find.

The 6.2 would be out if they all have the deep draft like what I saw when I googled one. If we got the 5.2 the cuddy would be used for supplies and I'd make a cockpit bed...



...like I did for the Mac and use a blow up mattress on it. We would make an enclosure like the boom tent you talked about.

I'd like something smaller as there are two smaller lakes within 10 minutes of the house and others 30-60 minutes away. They are large enough for a boat like these, but too small for the 26 footer.

One concern is the 'no ballast' us being the ballast. We are getting older and I'm still pretty mobile, but Ruth isn't to the same degree and she would like to also go out. Also we are at 6000 feet here and the lakes are fed from snow melt and don't get all that warm until late July/August. I'd like something that is pretty dry. Some spray is ok, but we don't want to end up in the water and would like to use it for at least 6-7 months of the year. The Venture 17 still has a lot of appeal to me. Thanks for the input guys and now back to the OP's initial question,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

I don't see an enclosed Head?

6.2 is a small boat, so it does not have an enclosed head.

As for the boom-tent and larger berth, that's something you'd have to work out after you see one. 5.2's are not that hard to find on sale, so I'd advise you go and physically look at one before you decide.

As far as staying dry, the Harpoons are as docile or as exciting as you want to make them. They will quite happily sail safely and dryly as long as you want - they're easy to keep on the level - but if you really want to put the rail in the water they can do that as well. That's the beauty of them - they are great for taking the grandmum out for a sail as well as going for a race. There's a reason they call Boston Whaler Harpoons the 'Mercedes Benz of daysailors'.

kmclemore wrote:6.2 is a small boat, so it does not have an enclosed head.

As for the boom-tent and larger berth, that's something you'd have to work out after you see one. 5.2's are not that hard to find on sale, so I'd advise you go and physically look at one before you decide.

As far as staying dry, the Harpoons are as docile or as exciting as you want to make them. They will quite happily sail safely and dryly as long as you want - they're easy to keep on the level - but if you really want to put the rail in the water they can do that as well. That's the beauty of them - they are great for taking the grandmum out for a sail as well as going for a race. There's a reason they call Boston Whaler Harpoons the 'Mercedes Benz of daysailors'.

That sounds encouraging. I'll try and see if we can find one to look at on our next trip. The head deal could be overcome the way we would use it with the Double Doodie bags we use now,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Heeling Harpoons
Repeatedly the question of the heeling angle has been raised. For the Harpoon dinghy, FLAT=FAST. Therefore, it is advisable to minimize heeling under most circumstances. Aside from the hydro-dynamics coming to bear on the hull, a flat Harpoon will have a lot less weather helm. Inevitably, the more the boat heels, the more weather helm you'll experience and the more effort is spent on the "righting moment" rather than forward thrust.

There are situations where a certain amount of heeling is indeed desirable. One instance is the moment that leads in to the planing of the hull. Another situation which calls for heeling are very light winds conditions. In that case, you'll want to heel the boat (by shifting your and/or crew weight) in order to reduce water surface contact area and more importantly, in order to ensure that the sail shape is maintained even when the wind does not offer sufficient strenght. Finally, roll-tacking and the hydro-dynamic forces associated with this maneuver demand intentional heeling.

In very heavy weather, when sailing upwind, you may opt to bring up the center board the slightest bit (at a rake) which will have the effect of reducing weather helm because it will reduce the natural heeling tendency. As a final point on this subject, it is worth knowing at what heeling angle your Harpoon is beyond the point of righting. To some extent the measure of safety will depend on the water surface conditions and to another it'll depend on total crew weight. In general, the Harpoon can have the rub rail entirely submerged in the water and still not yet be anywhere close to a capsize. Obviously, this angle should only be experienced when a surprise gust or major wind shift sent greetings. Crew as well as helmsman's weight is most effective in the counter-balance act when both sit near the thwart of the boat which also is the part with the widest beam. Especially when single-handing your Harpoon, avoid the common mistake of sitting near the transom.




Avoiding - Recovering From A Capsize
When sailing a centerboard dinghy, capsizing is a possibility that can never be ruled out. In general, the Harpoon is a very stable boat primarily due to its unusually wide beam. Nevertheless, it is essential for any dinghy sailor to be well familiar with the available capsize recovery methods. These paragraphs are not intended to replace a good sailing manual or instruction. Any safety conscious sailor should be confident in his/her ability to right a capsized dinghy. The following comments are strictly designed to be a supplement to the basic sailing knowledge.

Righting your boat should be practiced in a controlled setting so that you gain direct personal experience in the mechnics. Only then will you feel confident in your ability to right the capsized boat.
Any crew or guests should be properly instructed as to the procedures and individual responsibilities in case of a capsize.
Be able to swim. Wear a PFD (even if you are able to swim) and ensure crew is wearing one.
Due to its hull shape, the Harpoon will initially begin to heel quickly - more than you'd expect given the beam. However, the boat will equally quickly respond to shifting weight on the gunwhale and/or to hiking out. Even if a surprise gust dunks the leeward gunwhale in the water, you typically have plenty of time to respond.
Be familiar with the circumstances that can lead to a capsize both upwind as well as downwind. Always be alert and look for the winds coming your way.
In gusty conditions, do not cleat the mainsheet and look for the puffs on the water. Learn to instantly depower sails by luffing and pinching.
Beware of the downwind death roll, especially while under spinnaker. When the boat begins to rock and roll, head up a bit until the boat settles down.
Be totally clear on the centerboard pulley lines, the uphaul and downhaul. If you should not have them color coded and accidentally get them confused, you might in the heat of the moment pull the center board up rather then down and that - in shifting or gusting breezes - could be an instant ticket to a swim.
I suggest installing a Rescue Line. This is a rope you secure around the foot of the mast. The rope should be long enough so that it can reach over and beyond the gunwhale by at least eight feet. When you capsize, this rescue line will be tossed by the crew on the sail side of the horizontal boat over the gunwhale. The helmsman on the other side can then pick up this line, use it to climb on the center board and begin to pull the mast back up. Typically, manuals suggest to use the jib sheets for that purpose. The rescue line will work much better because you can (and should) leave all sheets uncleated so that they do not become giant water scoops.

NOTE: The extra wide beam makes the Harpoon 5.2 more stable but also more difficult to right. The rescue line should be long enough that the person at the underside of the boat can easily reach it, even if the boat has already begun to turtle.

NOTE: If the boat has indeed capsized, Invoke Righting Maneuver Without Delay ! You definitely want to avoid turtling the boat or worse, getting the mast stuck in mud. The wide beam of the Harpoon 5.2 causes this boat to want to turtle more quickly. The floatation pads in the head of the sails prevent this from happening too quickly. Nevertheless, time is of the essence. This is why it is critical that everyone be instructed in the precedures in advance.

If you are sailing single-handed, I also recommend fastening another line on the inside transom padeye. This line should have a loop tied in such a way that this loop can be used by someone in the water as an easy foot step to re-enter the boat over the transom withou assistance. Both the Harpoon 4.6 and 5.2 can actually be righted single-handed. The 4.6 rights easily whereas the 5.2 is more of a challenge to right without a crew's help. The rescue line and step-in line would make the processes more manageable.


It is possible to sail the Harpoon for decades and never capsize, even if you don't have hiking straps. Since the boat is totally self-rescuing there is no need to fear. Capsizing a Harpoon is in part a matter of how much risk you are willing to take and what wind and wave conditions you are willing to brave. You will be pleased with how little water remains once the boat has been righted and the totally self-rescuing evacuation of water through the bailers is a matter of seconds. In that the BW Harpoon is about as safe a dinghy as you could possibly get.

I found this info above on line. I had a chance to buy a Boston Whaler 5.2 but someone get it before me so I ended up with the Islands 17. These small boats are fast and nimble and you can sail in protected waters feeling pretty safe. Soon you will be learning death rolls.

Thanks for all of that Brian, good info,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Yeah, the key paragraph there is:

It is possible to sail the Harpoon for decades and never capsize, even if you don't have hiking straps. Since the boat is totally self-rescuing there is no need to fear. Capsizing a Harpoon is in part a matter of how much risk you are willing to take and what wind and wave conditions you are willing to brave. You will be pleased with how little water remains once the boat has been righted and the totally self-rescuing evacuation of water through the bailers is a matter of seconds. In that the BW Harpoon is about as safe a dinghy as you could possibly get.

All of the above is true. In over 30 years of ownership, I have only ever accidentally tipped the boat one time, and that was with the Admiral on board . The two of us righted the boat (both of us at age 52), climbed on board and were underway in less than 2 minutes, and the boat was drained of water in less than 5 minutes. Yes, really. The Elvstrom bailers are amazingly fast, even when you have only a little headway.

Here's a couple I found on Craigslist:
(insert usual caveat - I don't know the owners, no warranty offered, your mileage may vary, batteries not included)

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/boa/3568244434.html

http://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/3515842876.html