On Our way Home from Key West

[Herschel]

I haven't been in Tarpon Springs for a few years, but, unless there have been big changes, I can imagine a lot worse places to ride out a storm! Good eats, and some Greek restaurants that also feature belly dancers!

[Hamin' X]

...if my answer belongs in the front room, please move it
I think its more that, in the income strata that usually yields the tent campers and small boat sailors are working their butts off just trying to make it, let along go anywhere. The big guys can still go if gas goes up to 3.50 a gallon.

I'm going to respond to this here, but we may split it to it's own thread later.

From my baby boomer perspective, I think that it is a matter of priorities. I see it in many places; from boating, to camping, to aviation. As an example:

I hear many folks complain that the high cost of Avgas (100LL) is what is killing general aviation, or it's the high cost of new airplanes. To answer the fuel cost issue: When I was taking pilot training in 1973, I could rent a Cessna 172 for $15/hr, wet (with fuel) and with an instructor at $25/hr. Today's rates? $89/hr wet and $124/hr w/instructor. Inflation calculators show that $25 in 1972 is equivalent to $139.88 in today's dollars, about 12.5% higher. Factor in the better avionics and other equipment and it's a great deal today. Also, part of the increase in fuel goes to taxes, which pay for a vastly improve ATC (Air Traffic Control) system and airport improvements at small airports over what we had 40 years ago.

To the higher cost of aircraft, have you looked at home prices and home styles? In 1973, most family homes were three bedroom with 1, or 1 1/2 baths. Today, it seems like everyone has to have four bedrooms and 3 1/2 baths, family room and den and a three car garage. What folks thought was fine in 1973 at $20,000, with upgrades is $300,000 today.

Priorities: People "need" that new $6,000 entertainment center. That would pay for operating my C177rg for a year and that includes all reserve costs plus, repairs, annual, fuel, hanger and insurance. Folks today have far more to spend their money on than flying: Just look around your own house and neighborhood. I think that the same is true for boating, camping and most other things today.

Priorities!

~Rich

[March]

$89.00 an hour? Holy Cow! I'll move to Oregon.
We didn't have those prices around, not even in the late 80's. It used to be $100.00 wet. Ever since the gas prices tripled, I stopped inquiring and exchanged the wings for a different type of air foil.
Gotta luck into it.

[Hamin' X]

Well, it has been awhile since I rented an airplane from them. The closest rental shop is in Richland, WA and their prices have gone up. Used to be $89 a few years ago, but it's up to $105 now. Instructor is still $35. Still a good deal for well equipped and maintained aircraft.

Sundance Aviation

~Rich

[Three Gypsies]

...if my answer belongs in the front room, please move it
I think its more that, in the income strata that usually yields the tent campers and small boat sailors are working their butts off just trying to make it, let along go anywhere. The big guys can still go if gas goes up to 3.50 a gallon.

I'm going to respond to this here, but we may split it to it's own thread later.

From my baby boomer perspective, I think that it is a matter of priorities. I see it in many places; from boating, to camping, to aviation. As an example:

I hear many folks complain that the high cost of Avgas (100LL) is what is killing general aviation, or it's the high cost of new airplanes. To answer the fuel cost issue: When I was taking pilot training in 1973, I could rent a Cessna 172 for $15/hr, wet (with fuel) and with an instructor at $25/hr. Today's rates? $89/hr wet and $124/hr w/instructor. Inflation calculators show that $25 in 1972 is equivalent to $139.88 in today's dollars, about 12.5% higher. Factor in the better avionics and other equipment and it's a great deal today. Also, part of the increase in fuel goes to taxes, which pay for a vastly improve ATC (Air Traffic Control) system and airport improvements at small airports over what we had 40 years ago.


To the higher cost of aircraft, have you looked at home prices and home styles? In 1973, most family homes were three bedroom with 1, or 1 1/2 baths. Today, it seems like everyone has to have four bedrooms and 3 1/2 baths, family room and den and a three car garage. What folks thought was fine in 1973 at $20,000, with upgrades is $300,000 today.

Priorities: People "need" that new $6,000 entertainment center. That would pay for operating my C177rg for a year and that includes all reserve costs plus, repairs, annual, fuel, hanger and insurance. Folks today have far more to spend their money on than flying: Just look around your own house and neighborhood. I think that the same is true for boating, camping and most other things today.

Priorities!

~Rich

I don't know which is the right answer .
Has the recession wiped out the middle class's ability to recreate , or is it that we have become so spoiled that we won't recreate if we can't take the air conditioner and the recliner with us ?
I do know there very few out there cruising on a budget . The cruisers are 99% big trawlers . Very few small boats .
When I first started camping in state parks back in the early 70s , the parks were full of tents , small campers , and lots of homemade campers . Today its mostly 5th wheelers and Motor homes .

[Three Gypsies]

UPDATE ,,,
We crossed the Gulf from Steinhatcee River to Dog Island last Thursday .
It was 75 miles and 16 hours crossing . We had a bit of favorable wind the first half of the day so we ran the jib . Later in the day that turned into a slight headwind so the jib came down. The little Honda stayed on 3,000 rpm the whole 16 hours .
We anchored just off the beach of Dog Island and the next morning went onto Apalachicola , where we are docked and relaxing .

We started at 5:45 am , negotiated the Steinhatchee river channel in the dark and saw the sunrise well into the Gulf . Sunset found us just off the west coast , barely able to see land .

Boat and crew all did very well . the crossing was rough , but we have done worse .

[Herschel]

the crossing was rough

Bravo Zulu! on the crossing. When you say rough, what kind of seas are you taking about? And did you have an auto pilot or did you manually steer the whole 16 hours?

[Three Gypsies]

the crossing was rough

Bravo Zulu! on the crossing. When you say rough, what kind of seas are you taking about? And did you have an auto pilot or did you manually steer the whole 16 hours?

We manually steered the whole way , no autopilot . Out in the Gulf , with no focal points , its hard to hold a course .
Depending on which weather report we listened to , the seas ranged from a foot or less to two feet . Towards the end of the day I think they were two feet .
A foot or less is comfortable and easy to stay on course .
Two feet in our Mac aren't comfortable but they are doable .
Three feet is rough and a fight to stay on course .

[dlandersson]

Same on Lake Michigan - I tend not to go out if the waves are more than 2 feet.

We manually steered the whole way , no autopilot . Out in the Gulf , with no focal points , its hard to hold a course .
Depending on which weather report we listened to , the seas ranged from a foot or less to two feet . Towards the end of the day I think they were two feet .
A foot or less is comfortable and easy to stay on course .
Two feet in our Mac aren't comfortable but they are doable .
Three feet is rough and a fight to stay on course .

[Catigale]

Well, it has been awhile since I rented an airplane from them. The closest rental shop is in Richland, WA and their prices have gone up. Used to be $89 a few years ago, but it's up to $105 now. Instructor is still $35. Still a good deal for well equipped and maintained aircraft.

Sundance Aviation

~Rich

130 USd wet here in Albany NY

[mastreb]

I too find course holding to be somewhat problematic outside of land, but I'm helped dramatically by having a chart plotter on the helm configured so I can just keep the destination zoomed out and at the top of the screen. For some reason, holding course "numerically" by watching numbers on a compass always seems to have me ten to fifteen degrees off course every time I check.

The autopilot was so much better at holding course this last trip that I know it saved me time vs. the long S-curves I would have laid down manually. My breadcrumb tracks were straight as an arrow rather than the drunken bumblebee flight they usually appear to be. I don't like to be too dependent on electronics, but they're sure seductive.

Congrats on your crossing! 75nm is a long stretch.

[Three Gypsies]

I too find course holding to be somewhat problematic outside of land, but I'm helped dramatically by having a chart plotter on the helm configured so I can just keep the destination zoomed out and at the top of the screen. For some reason, holding course "numerically" by watching numbers on a compass always seems to have me ten to fifteen degrees off course every time I check.

The autopilot was so much better at holding course this last trip that I know it saved me time vs. the long S-curves I would have laid down manually. My breadcrumb tracks were straight as an arrow rather than the drunken bumblebee flight they usually appear to be. I don't like to be too dependent on electronics, but they're sure seductive.

Congrats on your crossing! 75nm is a long stretch.

Our GPS doesn't update fast enough to steer by it , so we are forced to use the compass . For this last crossing we replaced our compass with a lighted one . When we crossed earlier ours wasn't lit . It was difficult to try and hold a flashlight on it and steer in a confused sea .

It was 75 SM even longer

[JohnCFI]

Never watch a compass, it stops you from reacting to the sea & wind influences.. during the day, pick a point, and steer towards it, perhaps a distant cloud, checking compass every few minutes and correct to a new point, at night pick a prominent star.... There is nearly always some distant object you can use...

[cptron]

Never watch a compass, it stops you from reacting to the sea & wind influences.. during the day, pick a point, and steer towards it, perhaps a distant cloud, checking compass every few minutes and correct to a new point, at night pick a prominent star.... There is nearly always some distant object you can use...

That would be fine and I have tried it however clouds and stars move across the sky, except the north star, which if not careful could eventually be leading you astray or into danger.

[Catigale]

As long as it's not a shooting star, you will be ok. Blue hulls won't be able to follow a shooting star, anyhow.