Installing a bilge pump

[Sumner]

No thru hulls and sea cocks.

As Russ said you don't use thru-hulls and sea cocks because they don't discharge below the water line. The two 2000 ghp ones on the Endeavour discharge high at the stern where heeling doesn't effect things so much. The nuisance one does discharge below the waterline using a thru-hull that was already there but has a vented loop in the line and in the yard there is no waterline . It isn't meant to handle an emergency.

In a normal install you have a vented loop on the discharge line if the oulet could get below the water line, like it might in heeling, so you never have to worry about siphoning water back into the boat. Putting in a vented loop on the S would of been harder so I do have one compromise.....



...I put in a ball valve after the pump. The pump is not setup with an auto float start. So if I have a problem I have to manually turn the pump on and open the valve above but then I could go back to dealing with the situation. I do plan on adding float switches so that if I turn it on and it runs dry it won't hurt the pump. With the valve I don't need to worry about normal sailing and if the outlet goes below water. If the boat was slipped I'd open the valve in the slip and have an auto-on switch on the pump.

If I had a boat in a slip or on a mooring I for sure would have a bilge pump, auto-switch, battery and solar panel. I have friends that had a 38 foot boat in Florida slipped and they went home to Texas and when they got back it had sunk. Luckily it was in a shallow canal so it didn't totally sink. The scuppers in the cockpit clogged up with leaves and crap and the rain water flooded the cockpit on the boat and and put it down into the mud. So it wasn't even a failure below the waterline that caused the problem.

On the S I don't see a need to move a pump around since there are only two places any water in the boat ends up and that is under each settee in the cabin where the pump is. I guess from what you guys are saying on an X or M that isn't the case.

I also agree that putting a hole in the side of the boat is remote and if it happens you had better hope it is just a crack that isn't letting in massive amounts of water. If you go down the west coast of Florida once you leave Marco Island going to the Keys you have 80-90 miles of water where you are all on your own unless you can make it into Everglades City which is a ways in and still 60 miles north of the keys. Once out on Florida Bay you are out of sight of any land. I'm sure the Coast Guard probably patrols that area but in a month we never saw them and only a few other boats which to me was the beauty of that area but still you have to mainly count on yourself if you have a situation,

Sumner

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Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Russ]

If I had a boat in a slip or on a mooring I for sure would have a bilge pump, auto-switch, battery and solar panel. I have friends that had a 38 foot boat in Florida slipped and they went home to Texas and when they got back it had sunk. Luckily it was in a shallow canal so it didn't totally sink. The scuppers in the cockpit clogged up with leaves and crap and the rain water flooded the cockpit on the boat and and put it down into the mud. So it wasn't even a failure below the waterline that caused the problem.

Having our insurance with BoatUS, we get their magazine. Love it! They often have articles explaining what caused boats to sink (and file a claim).
It's enlightening. As you have stated, clogged scuppers is one of them. Powerboats with critters eating through rubber exhaust hoses. Shaft and rudder fittings. Ice build up. And the number one cause is thru hull fitting failures.

I have to give Roger credit for the X/M design. No thru hulls and a fool proof cockpit drain system that works even if the bottom drain were to plug up. The X does have that compression pole that I haven't seen if it is below the water line, but could be an issue.

Install a pump and have one less thing to keep you up at night worrying about. Just don't count on it if you hit a rock at 20mph. But then again, you can cling to the rock until help comes.

[Sumner]

...I have to give Roger credit for the X/M design. No thru hulls and a fool proof cockpit drain system that works even if the bottom drain were to plug up. ...

If the cockpit drain plugs on the models before the X/M it won't drain until there is a lot of water in there and the way he designed the cock/pit and connecting motor-well drain isn't so hot as it get a low spot in it in the Laz. People have replaced some of it with PVC and I still might do that at some point as crap does end up in the low spot and water can stay there and freeze also.

......Install a pump and have one less thing to keep you up at night worrying about. Just don't count on it if you hit a rock at 20mph. But then again, you can cling to the rock until help comes.

I remember the first time we put the boat in the water.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... cPhee.html

..... It was April on a Colorado lake filled with snow melt water that was probably about 1 degree above being ice and the overnight temp was in the 30's. We hadn't had the boat in the water for a day trip just put it in and went and anchored out. We were the only ones on the lake that night and I could see the lights of a house about a 1/4 of a mile away and wondered if I had to swim to shore and get to that house would I die of hypothermia first and Ruth didn't even know how to swim but we did at least have the Zodiac.

So we get into the V-berth under a lot of covers and try and go to sleep. Well I started hearing all kinds of noises, some of which sounded like water coming into the boat. About then I wondered about how smart I'd been suggesting that we put the boat in and sleep on her overnight without at least a day trip first ,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Russ]

Good points as always Sumner.

Safety on the water is the most important thing to consider before heading out.

[dlandersson]

And..and...?

[mastreb]

I have a cheap Rule 2000 and a length of clear vinyl hose on each end, wired to a 12V cigarette lighter plug that goes into my socket so it's portable.

Boat is 3 years old, have never used it because I've never had any water in the bilge. If the boat starts taking on water routinely, I'll figure out why and solve it rather than install a permanent pump.

I carry a tub of emergency leak sealing putty, which I consider to be more important than a pump, but then my boat doesn't live in the water when I'm not on it.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... ?pid=63791

[BOAT]

Bilge pump is important for safety. The main reason to have one is in case you get a hole in the boat. If you never have a situation where you would be caught out at sea with a hole in the boat then a bilge pump is not so important, you can skip it. You need your outboard motor electricity so you can power the high output pump in an emergency and get the boat back to land in a hurry before it sinks.

for those people that do need a bilge pump (folks who are out a sea at least a day away from land) then there are very specific rules about how to set up the pumps - you always need at least two. On on the bottom and one a little higher because the lower pump will clog. The set up the pros install will have the weaker pump on the very bottom for occasional small leaks and a heavy high output pump a few inches above for the catastrophic hull breach that will keep you afloat without getting all clogged up with the debris that's always on the very bottom of the bilge.

That's the Navy way that was taught to me by old Navy guys. That is the setup I will have because 'boat' will be crossing to the channel islands a lot and a hull breach from floating debris is very possible.

It's 54 mile due west to San Nicolas Island from Oceanside, and 46 miles due north west to Avalon and I plan to make those crossings many many times in 'boat' - so I will want two pumps. Many cargo ships travel that channel and they leave junk in the water.

[kurz]

Hi
I like the safety setting that is needed with the CE-Rules for europa:

Many little things an like: electric bilge pump, and a second one is a manual pump, which you can run in the cockpit.

One i had to clean the boat inside with a hose an water. Very easy, just put the electric bilge pump on, and go...

[raycarlson]

On a Mac I would skip the bilge pump and go for a good working vhf radio and life vest. I would venture to guess after striking a partially submerged cargo container the hole would be bigger than any 12volt pump and thru hull fitting could handle anyway, a couple of buckets can out discharge water faster than any little 12v pump, and we all know our boat will float anyway even when fully breached and cabin flooded..........lol

[BOAT]

The really big home depot buckets are the best. I have been in a situation before where bailing is required. Not on 'boat', but on a CAL25 we encountered out in the San Pedro Channel many years ago. The keel broke off and water was coming in through the bottom where there used to be some real long j bolts. We had one of those white flour buckets that bulk flour comes in (or maybe it was rice) and we were able to get the water down fast with it.

If your a day out - your radio will be under water before they get to you unless your confident of your flotation. Your electric will be gone too. That's why you need the outboard motor for electric and a good pump to keep the boat (and the batteries) above the water so you can stay on the surface until the people rescue you or you limp back to shore.

By the way - I just saw the stupidest movie I have ever seen in my life on Amazon Prime last night - it was called "All Is Lost" - I saw this IDIOT trying to fix a storm jib in the middle of a storm when he had a perfectly good furling jib sitting right there on the forestay. The guy in the movie was a lousy actor too. And the boat had a hole from sailing into a container - not likely to happen - the hole you get will be from POWERING into a container. You can sail into just about anything without getting a hole because the boats only go 6 knots under sail.

In the movie the guy had three gallons of fiberglass resin on board but no EPRB! The whole movie was stupid.

[RobertB]

OK, I really want to see how you bail out the bilge with a 5 gallon bucket! I am luck to get a 1 quart bucket in there.

[BOAT]

Not the bilge! The bucket is for catastrophic cases like when the whole cabin is flooded!

Hey luna sea! Your AP install is great! How did you get the wooden block installed? With fiberglass?

[RobertB]

Thanks. I cut the block as close as I could to match the hull. I then cut several pieces of fiberglass mat to fill voids between the block and the hull. Finally, fillets and a bit more fiberglass around the edges. I then put the carpet back the best I could. Worst part was prepping the fiberglass - getting the carpet adhesive off.

[sirlandsalot]

So!

Interesting this thread as I just ordered a bilge pump on Amazon thinking I will have one for emergency use on my I thought for the $25 bucks for 1100 GPH pump and $15 bucks for the fancy switch with an auto.....why not.

A little bit more safety for 40 bucks! The problem, is where the Frick do I install on a M? I wish those for and aft ribs on either side had drain holes in them as I do collect a bit of water in them. My bilge is always moist, with small bit of water in them, mold is always an issue. I think I will tie into the sink drain with it.

David

[RobertB]

I would look at the capacity of the pump - and figure if it is compatible with the sink drain. My sink drains pretty slowly and if I put a high capacity pump on the drain line, I probably would overflow the sink. Pumps probably have info stating the recommended drain line diameter.