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Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:21 am
by BOAT
Tomfoolery wrote:BOAT wrote:Propane is heavier than air. I do not see it on boats (at least not boats that are still floating).
Not on small boats maybe, but I don't recall seeing a big boat that
didn't have propane. But the cylinders are DOT type, in an exterior locker with a vent to the outside, with a solenoid valve to cut the flow (controlled from the galley), along with the usual manual valve, plus the range has gas valves with thermocouples to disable gas flow unless kept hot. If it's done per ABYC rules, and a modicum of common sense is employed, there's nothing to worry about.
Yes, PROpane might be one of those that is light enough, I really can't remember. I know that some of the natural gasses are okay and some are not. There are so many of them and so many blends that i myself am afraid of all of them on a boat. I guess on big boats the propane is the standard?? Is that right Tom? Since I never owned a "big boat" I really don't know but i do remember seeing their tanks mounted on the deck outside.
So why again NOT on small boats?
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:31 am
by Chinook
For those with an X the Wallas stove deserves consideration. It's available in either 1 or 2 burner models, uses readily available kerosene or diesel fuel, is a very efficient and effective cooker, is externally vented and therefore produces no hazardous exhaust within the cabin, and can be mated up with a blower hood, thus enabling it to double as a cabin heater. On the downside it's quite expensive and can be finicky to light. It doesn't like old fuel, and it requires a well charged house battery. If your battery gets low, you may have to start the boat's engine before lighting the stove. All things considered, we're happy with our choice of the Wallas as our stove. Because of the external exhaust feature, it is not practical to install on an M which uses its sliding galley.
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:20 am
by Russ
Great guide on fuels onboard
http://www.boatus.org/guide/trip_23.html
Our boat came with a butane stove. Works great and is VERY hot. Boils water lightning fast. That's about all we use it for, making coffee.
For just about all other cooking we use the 1lb propane fueled magma grill. We cook breakfast to pizza on it. Works great and we store the bottles in the motor well.
Down below, we never use the stove without hatches open and air moving. Use your sniffer.
Statistically I was surprised to learn of how few explosions there are on boats from propane. I'm old school and always veered away from compressed gas onboard for the reasons already mentioned. Gasoline fumes rank #1 in explosions and fires. Probably because more people fill their rod holders with fuel than leave their stoves running without a flame.
--Russ
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:30 am
by BOAT
Coleman stoves (the old fashioned ones) are not good either. The old Colman Lantern fuel was really just mostly gasoline as I recall. As a youngster i used to camp without a motor home and I always used a gasoline powered one burner "blow torch" stove. Man it really burned hot too! I only used it outside.
They fill their rod holders with fuel?? (I am not a fisherman, I don't get it).
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:04 am
by Russ
BOAT wrote:Coleman stoves (the old fashioned ones) are not good either. The old Colman Lantern fuel was really just mostly gasoline as I recall. As a youngster i used to camp without a motor home and I always used a gasoline powered one burner "blow torch" stove. Man it really burned hot too! I only used it outside.
They fill their rod holders with fuel?? (I am not a fisherman, I don't get it).
We cruised up Long Island Sound with another boat with a family that came from a camping background. They brought one of those coleman stoves and coleman lanterns. Every night we'd see this brilliant glow from their cockpit. Yea, what was it, "white gas" or some such thing. Very dangerous. Fortunately they never blew up.
According to BoatUS (I love that magazine) pumping fuel into rod holders happens more often than you'd think. They see the claims.
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazin ... alerts.asp
http://www.naplesnews.com/community/mar ... ffic-marco
A boater who mistook a fishing rod holder for a gas tank opening and filled up his bilge with fuel
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:14 am
by Tomfoolery
BOAT wrote:I guess on big boats the propane is the standard?? Is that right Tom? Since I never owned a "big boat" I really don't know but i do remember seeing their tanks mounted on the deck outside.
AFAIK it is the standard. Mine were mounted in a locker on the port side that made up part of the swim platform, with two 4-1/2 lb tanks. There was a vent hose to a thru hull, circled in the pic. The vent line originated at the lowest point in the locker. Propane is definitely heavier than air, so precautions have to be taken, per the ABYC.
BOAT wrote:So why again NOT on small boats?
No idea, other than it's not cheap to do it right. No tanks in the living space. Ventilation for the locker. Electric valve with remote control. And a gas range for a boat isn't cheap, either.
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:19 am
by BOAT
So do you still have the big Hunter? What happened to the big Hunter?
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:27 am
by Russ
Tomfoolery wrote:BOAT wrote:So why again NOT on small boats?
No idea, other than it's not cheap to do it right. No tanks in the living space. Ventilation for the locker. Electric valve with remote control. And a gas range for a boat isn't cheap, either.
I agree with this.
Also, I would speculate that smaller boats are not used for cruising as often, therefore not a big need for cooking and the expense of installing it correctly.
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:01 am
by Tomfoolery
BOAT wrote:So do you still have the big Hunter? What happened to the big Hunter?
Sold it to buy the small MacGregor.
It was back on the market recently, with several costly improvements, for less than I sold it for, which in turn was more than I bought it for.
I actually gave some thought to buying it back, but I don't want to go back to that sort of boating now. I'm liking trailer sailing too much.
I wanted to be able to take a boat to places I couldn't easily get to on the Hunter, or get to at all, for that matter. And here's the irony - I wanted fewer systems to maintain and repair. Like no propane system.
Which brings us full circle.
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:19 am
by BOAT
Yeah, that's that big Hunter 340? - it's the one that was SO popular - they must have sold a million of those, there are several of them over here. I think they made their most money on that 340 boat. They sold a lot of them.
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:28 am
by K9Kampers
RussMT wrote:Tomfoolery wrote:BOAT wrote:So why again NOT on small boats?
No idea, other than it's not cheap to do it right. No tanks in the living space. Ventilation for the locker. Electric valve with remote control. And a gas range for a boat isn't cheap, either.
I agree with this.
Also, I would speculate that smaller boats are not used for cruising as often, therefore not a big need for cooking and the expense of installing it correctly.
A few years back, KayakDan, formally of 'Spice' was outfitting their
with a propane system for their Bahamas trip. Searching his posts may yeild a description of his system.
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:51 pm
by yukonbob
Coleman fuel and white gasoline are not the same. Coleman fuel contains components that are much less volatile than gasoline (such as naptha 40-50%). This is what makes it safer to use in a stove or lantern. White gasoline is simply gasoline that contains no antiknock additives.
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:58 pm
by mrron_tx
RussMT wrote:Great guide on fuels onboard
http://www.boatus.org/guide/trip_23.html
Russ... I agree sooo much with Your "sniffer" comment
Propane/butane 's smell is very hard to miss....especially in a small space
Ron
Our boat came with a butane stove. Works great and is VERY hot. Boils water lightning fast. That's about all we use it for, making coffee.
For just about all other cooking we use the 1lb propane fueled magma grill. We cook breakfast to pizza on it. Works great and we store the bottles in the motor well.
Down below, we never use the stove without hatches open and air moving. Use your sniffer.
Statistically I was surprised to learn of how few explosions there are on boats from propane. I'm old school and always veered away from compressed gas onboard for the reasons already mentioned. Gasoline fumes rank #1 in explosions and fires. Probably because more people fill their rod holders with fuel than leave their stoves running without a flame.
--Russ
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:17 pm
by mastreb
The Beneteau has propane for the galley. It takes a 5 gallon bottle which is located in a locker on the aft starboard cockpit, and which is air-tight to the interior of the boat with a vented hatch. If it leaks, it leaks to the outside and will roll out of the cockpit to aft.
It would be reasonably safe to mount a propane bottle in one of the fuel lockers on an X or M in place of a 12 gallon gas tank (i.e., a 6 gallon gas tank and a 5 gallon propane bottle) if you ran the hose down to the transom and in through the cableway, along the floor, and then service looped up to the galley (so that you can still slide it on an M). You'd have to put in the required pressure check valves. You'll also want to stuff the cableway tightly.
A slow leak in the stove itself would still be a danger because it would fill the cabin. This could asphyxiate sleepers, and any spark would detonate the boat. It's a system that requires annual inspection and testing. If you're the kind of owner that is rigorous about that stuff, then there's little risk. Otherwise, it's eventually going to happen.
We use alcohol on the Macgregor because of its safety. It's readily available at home depot and most hardware stores, just ask for it if you can't find it.
Re: what stove fuel type for - Galley upgrade
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:49 am
by Highlander
Here,s my butane stove galley mod
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... b8f3e2.jpg
cut out counter & installed a SS Roasting pan after I cut off the handles
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 031679.jpg
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... f53a32.jpg
installed cutting board covers stove when not in use giving back the counter top for other uses
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 66312f.jpg
U can cook on the stove while sitting on the cutting board
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... f90f0d.jpg
or leave the stove sitting inside the roasting pan this method will catch any spills & retain them inside the pan for easy clean up good for using the stove under way
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... d1aaf6.jpg
I do also have a gas sniffer on board
J
