Reconsidering WOT Prop Weighting Ballast or No Ballast:

[vkmaynard]

I kind of like two props here. You're generally going to know what you want to do and what conditions you're going out in, and when you get caught unaware, just watch your throttle. Good grease and a reusable cotter pin makes this easy.

I have that change down to about 2 min...

I was swapping these 4 back and forth yesterday...all have the same pitch but different fin design and all run totally different

So what are the differences?

Victor

[Gazmn]

Would a cavitation plate hydrofoil effect WOT performance?

I don't think so, Wnd Chime. I had the one you listed. I put it on after I was already dissatisfied. It didn't make my numbers worse or better. It gave me a "nicer" ride & helped point the nose where ever I trimmed it, though.

[raycarlson]

Always amazes how this imaginary horsepower rating, and fear of being sued or insurance denied issue constantly floats around on the forum. If none of the worrywarts have never noticed, there is NO USCG transom hp or weight rating tag on a Mac. The reason why is there is NO rating required on any boat larger than 25ft. You are free to put any size motor you wish on your boat, if your insurance co. issues you a policy on your boat and you list the correct hp motor you have and they give you a policy they are obligated to pay any claims, as with any insurance co, you might need a lawyer to shake the money out of them, but they are obligated to pay up.The only horsepower statement regarding Macs is a recommendation in sales brochures and advertisements. And that suggestion is routinely violated by even there own dealer network, at least when they used to make Macgregors....... A suggestion or recommendation does not carry very much weight in court, especially when the manufacturer and dealers violate their own suggestion.Not to mention its not even an issue you would ever see brought up in a courtroom. Do you think Dodge would be selling 720 horsepower Hellcat Challengers to any 16 yearold who can talk dad into buying him one if they were worried about being sued because they overpowered the car for a novice 16 yearold operator, or State Farm would deny the claim when the kid kills a family on the freeway because he was doing 190mph, No way, they issued the policy,they knew the horsepower, they will pay up.

[Seapup]

I had a bit of a collection too. & now find out that I'm gonna either have to rehub or just invest in newer props. This lower unit is a much beefier V6 model, 15 spline. Yay

I was wondering why you were asking...I thought you had a few to try.

You can swing up to a 16" diameter with that right

Should be getting close to splash time...

I don't think so, Wnd Chime. I had the one you listed. I put it on after I was already dissatisfied. It didn't make my numbers worse or better. It gave me a "nicer" ride & helped point the nose where ever I trimmed it, though.

I had the stingray classic on my 90 too. You could really trim the bow right up to go over waves, but at speed it made steering horrible. Any movement/lean and the boat would take off to the side.

So what are the differences?

Victor

In a nutshell on the tiny diameter the 4 blades turn the water into a blender and ventilate trying to get thorough the resistance of hull speed. The larger amita 3 is decent but has some more vibrations than the OEM branded 3 blade. Both the 3 blades push the boat a few mph faster since they don't slip at hull speed. I doubt any of that would carry up to large diameter props. I am leaving for 10 days on the water this afternoon and will post up some details about each on the 9.9 thread when I get back or bored along the way next week.

[yukonbob]

Always amazes how this imaginary horsepower rating, and fear of being sued or insurance denied issue constantly floats around on the forum. If none of the worrywarts have never noticed, there is NO USCG transom hp or weight rating tag on a Mac. The reason why is there is NO rating required on any boat larger than 25ft. You are free to put any size motor you wish on your boat, if your insurance co. issues you a policy on your boat and you list the correct hp motor you have and they give you a policy they are obligated to pay any claims, as with any insurance co, you might need a lawyer to shake the money out of them, but they are obligated to pay up.The only horsepower statement regarding Macs is a recommendation in sales brochures and advertisements. And that suggestion is routinely violated by even there own dealer network, at least when they used to make Macgregors....... A suggestion or recommendation does not carry very much weight in court, especially when the manufacturer and dealers violate their own suggestion.Not to mention its not even an issue you would ever see brought up in a courtroom. Do you think Dodge would be selling 720 horsepower Hellcat Challengers to any 16 yearold who can talk dad into buying him one if they were worried about being sued because they overpowered the car for a novice 16 yearold operator, or State Farm would deny the claim when the kid kills a family on the freeway because he was doing 190mph, No way, they issued the policy,they knew the horsepower, they will pay up.

you might need a lawyer to shake the money out of them, but they are obligated to pay up.

You have way more money than me!

There are so many thing wrong with this statement. When no USCG plate is issued the hull number is used to check the specifications with the registering authority (they get filled out along with dimensions, ratings, weight, material etc when registering your boat) Homemade boats have to be inspected and approved before registering along with all above information. When a boat does not fall within the formula the USCG uses to calculate the weight and rating due to size or complexity it is left with the boat designers an engineers to determine. Same goes for building regulations. Residential buildings fall under a certain part of the code (9 in Canada) and it is the legal responsibility of the inspectors to inspect for deficiencies (USCG issued for smaller boats). If the building becomes too large or complex it falls under a set of guidelines (3 in Canada) for architects and engineers to follow and it is the legal responsibility of the architects and engineers to inspect for deficiencies in their design and the work preformed. This is why you, me anybody can go build their residence (within reason) using only competent trades people and building code(s) and high rises, bridges and pretty much everything else is engineered designed and stamped and why when large engineered structures fail they look to the engineers.

To think that you are insured simply because you have a policy is foolish at best. Criminal activity, gross negligence, gross misconduct, misrepresentation can all lead to cancelation; Your insurer will most likely cover third party damages but not yours and may seek punitive damages or restitution from you in court. Your insurance is a contract and if you violate or enter into it under false or misleading pretences that contract it is void. Most policies are a small book of fine print with numbers referencing different legislative and mandated policies, but I'm sure we've all read them cover to cover and cross referenced...right?

Say you tell your insurer you have a 26' MacGregor with a 120 Hp on the back, but fail to inform them the manufacturer specs have a 50HP max rating* thats misrepresentation. Likewise if you were to insure the same boat with a 50 then upgrade to a 120 and not inform them of the material change in risk,thats misrepresentation and possible fraud if they can prove intent to defraud the company i.e. if you tried to process a claim. Same goes for cars; if you have an off the lot car and insure it as is, then take it home and turn it into a 900 hp track car and go driving around and don't inform your insurer; your not covered due to a material change in risk and liable for damages. Again, if you can have a designer or engineer re-rate the boat and stamp / sign off or inform your insurer of all the facts and they accept there should be no issues.
* The manufacturer / designer did allow BWY to install up to 70Hp using an approved method which may be arguable in court if another competent dealer installed

Ok the Challenger story...Assuming the 16 yo kid is insurable (the policy would be worth more than the car) So dead/maimed family as third party would most likely be covered up to the maximum insurable limit (1 million minimum in Canada much less in some states from what I've heard). Kid is negligent in his action doing 190mph (car and kids injuries are not covered) insurer sues him for damages. 16 yo's father is also criminally liable as his legal guardian, bye bye house, cars, savings, family. If it can be found that the dealership was negligent they may also be held liable for processing the sale. (Dodge as a manufacturer has no legal responsibility as to how their cars are driven or by whom that is one of many reasons why you can't buy factory direct). So the family seeks damages higher than the insurable limit...Oh you don't have an extra 3-4 million? So 16 yo and father sit in jail while the family he maimed goes into poverty (assuming they lived) cause they can't pay their bills. Real s-m-r-t

Everyones gonna do what ever they do, and a small claim may not create any problems, But when something significant happens (whether you're at fault or not) Insurance companies will do just about everything not to pay. So make sure all your t's are crosses and i's dotted. It's not me I'm worried about its the 16 yo with the Challenger.

[Gazmn]

You can swing up to a 16" diameter with that right

Oh Yeah

[Gazmn]

Now now boys...

What I love about this site:
Healthy dialogue... Camraderie... Rumination amongst Great Company - not grate company - We can get that at home

& The never ending postulation of the: "What if..."

I've gotten Many Great Ideas & Inspiration from this site over the years because we only want what's best for us all and our families.

When I'm thinking about, or before I go about, doing Whatever it is I'm going to do boating- I bring it here & ask for thoughts & impressions. Not permission - We're all Big Boys here

Come on now... Group Hug

[vkmaynard]

In a nutshell on the tiny diameter the 4 blades turn the water into a blender and ventilate trying to get thorough the resistance of hull speed. The larger amita 3 is decent but has some more vibrations than the OEM branded 3 blade. Both the 3 blades push the boat a few mph faster since they don't slip at hull speed. I doubt any of that would carry up to large diameter props. I am leaving for 10 days on the water this afternoon and will post up some details about each on the 9.9 thread when I get back or bored along the way next week.

Interesting. My four blade blends the water into 31 MPH Really 10 days?? I am jealous.

Victor

[yukonbob]

Now now boys...

What I love about this site:
Healthy dialogue... Camraderie... Rumination amongst Great Company - not grate company - We can get that at home

& The never ending postulation of the: "What if..."

I've gotten Many Great Ideas & Inspiration from this site over the years because we only want what's best for us all and our families.

When I'm thinking about, or before I go about, doing Whatever it is I'm going to do boating- I bring it here & ask for thoughts & impressions. Not permission - We're all Big Boys here

Come on now... Group Hug

Thanks Gaz. We all work hard to have the things we do and I'd hate to see someone lose all of it over a stupid disclaimer in a policy. Do i think oversizing our engines is going to result in catastrophic hull or transom failure...no, but it doesn't matter what I think it's when you have to try and explain it to the judge that matters. And to be clear I do not work for or support the insurance industry. It has it's place but they have way, way, WAY too much power over everything. And to defend the insurance companies to some degree most of this is mostly due to a few legal action trigger happy money grabbing bad apples that have now ruined and continue to ruin it for everyone else.

[Wind Chime]

I love this site for all those reasons as well

I just wish there was a definitive answer or some precedent regarding the insurance/liability issue with regard to increasing horsepower.

Many trips as I've been plowing along at 7 kn and wished I could put the hammer down and just get home, I thought I wish I had more horsepower, I wish I knew if I could add more horsepower and be confident I was still insured.

Darry

[Gazmn]

it doesn't matter what I think it's when you have to try and explain it to the judge that matters.

I was gonna get the Sammy Davis Jr. clip but I found this & learned where it came from

The irony is Shorty Long died in a boating accident

It's been my life's quest to stay under the radar. I'll keep you posted regarding insurance filing.

[yukonbob]

I love this site for all those reasons as well

I just wish there was a definitive answer or some precedent regarding the insurance/liability issue with regard to increasing horsepower.

Many trips as I've been plowing along at 7 kn and wished I could put the hammer down and just get home, I thought I wish I had more horsepower, I wish I knew if I could add more horsepower and be confident I was still insured.

Darry

As long as your insurance company has all the info and are willing to insure you based on that information they are taking that risk to insure you. Or if you can have someone credited sign off saying that based on the weight/power of the OB and that the structure of the transom/hull can handle the increased weight and torque (i've heard it can cost as little as a few hundred bucks) and you provide that to your insurer there should be no problem.

[raycarlson]

the difinative answer is there is no difinitive answer, because there is no case law that has been decided regarding macs and issues with over powering or catasrophic failues. Firist of what would the coastgaurd tell the judge.they would tell him that a mac 26m is 25 ft 10in long and there fore falls into a class of craft where transom horspower and wieght rating is not required by law therefore coast gaurd has no further opinins. whats the manufacturer going to tell the judge,roger will tell him hes used a wide range of hp in his boats, and none of his transoms have had a failure due to horse power. he'll say in the 26M he first tested with a 50 and reccommended a nissan 50. but in lated years got a better deal on engines from BRP evinrude so he started reccommending 60 hp evinrudes.when the judge asks for any engineering data he'll get a bunch of doodles on napkins that he designed all his boats on,then he'll explain that their are hundreds of 26 x an M outthere with 75, 90 115,135,140, 150 hp motors for years with zero failures due to structure issues, the judge will ask just how fast this mac 26M with a 140hp engine will go and he'll learn that it will go WOT about 32 33mph. This is when the judge will start laughing and dismiss the case for lack of credible cause. If any one on this site has ever seen an actual lawsuit regarding this subject matter it will forsure be plastered all over these pages for weeks. Its difficult to find any documented case anywhere that was settled with paid damages because of over horsepower on a non-transom-plated boat with no USCG requirement for weiight or power. all you will hear is second and third hand eumors from cousins and uncles back east, out west etc etc etc.. nothing factual.My insuruer BoatUS has no problem with my installing a 115hp mercury, as long as i give correct seriall number and retail price,

[bahama bound]

Just spent a heavily loaded week on our boat ,still have the 13 1/2 x 17 prop and I topped out at 19.5 mph but would only turn around 3800 rpms .but hit hull speed at a really low rpm !

[vkmaynard]

Do you really want to live your life under an insurance policy? If your insurance only covers you for 3 squares of toilet paper per wipe in case of a bathroom mishap do you dare to use four

Please, never wipe with a TPS Report

Maybe time to find another reasonable company.

Victor