yawing at anchor

[NiceAft]

.... The mushroom anchor hanging off the primary rode helps to act as a shock absorber and helps the primary anchor to maintain better contact.

The other thing and I think the most important is that it pull the primary anchor's rode down towards the bottom which decreases the angle of the rode, the same as putting out more scope. The decreased angle in both cases helps to present a more horizontal pull on the anchor wanting to pull it into the bottom and not up and out of the bottom.

The negative to this is if things go bad in a bad blow, say you are still dragging towards shore or another boat, is having to retrieve all of that up on the bow in wind and waves if you need to try and move the boat. This is also the negative if you have two anchors down. Hopefully in both cases they are doing their job and you are not having to try and power the boat somewhere else. I've never yet had to do that and hope that remains the case but you do hear of it happening, especially with lots of boats anchored close to one another where one or more starts to drag. Another reason to try and stay off to yourself ,

Sumner
]

I agree with that to a point. That is why the snap hook is used; pull the tether line until the snap hook is within reach and unsnap it from the primary rode; now the two anchors are completely separate. Now you can quickly pull the mushroom anchor up and then retrieve the primary as usual (or visa-versa). To me this was always better than trying to drop two main anchors and then getting both of them back on board if the weather was unfriendly. And...Kathy has been on bow with waves breaking around her during this process. That was a bad night...don't want anymore of those! All that said...it is a simple method to greatly reduce swing and it also make the primary ground tackle more effective.

FlyboyTR,

Can you post a diagram of what this looks like.

Ray

[Sumner]

..Concerning your experience on lake Powell, you mentioned you would avoid that shore anchored stern line in the future, for clarification I read that you are most concerned about anchoring the boat from both ends preventing it from streamlining into the wind, rather than using a shore line, is this correct? Do you think your line would have broken if all lines were off the bow?

Yes it was tying the boat off at both ends, not the shore lines, that was the problem. I ended up with a total of 4 shore lines all to the bow so the shore lines in themselves were fine and none of them showed any sign of breaking although at the time 4 didn't seem that many.



.... I did wrap them to prevent chaffing on the rocks though.

The lake is hundreds of feet deep in places like that just a few feet off shore. I think there it was over 20 feet deep between shore and that small island we were tied to. Also the bottom is just slick canyon rock in places like that so in a place like that it has nothing to grab onto. Shore lines were the only option. I did have an anchor down but it was pretty much straight down and in retrospect was doing nothing other that one more obstacle that had to be dealt with when we finally left.

The boat needed to be tied to the shore and the Island so as to not be blown into either. It was like a Bahamian moor except that the lines were above the water instead of under the boat.



I had two bow lines more or less parallel to the shore as the stronger winds were going to come from that direction and two lines to the island. In the picture above the one to the island was the stern line that blew when the wind picked up. Luckily I had by then attached another line from the bow to the island or the boat would of swung into the near shore and then added a second to the island.

At the end of the couple days we were trapped there the wind did finally clock and the boat swung around and had the side up against the two shore lines so that wasn't good but by then the winds were not much so we made it.

I would never get into the situation we were in there again. We learned a lot those couple days stuck there. One is with the fractured shoulder and other injuries it took me a couple days before I could pull start the outboard again and Ruth couldn't.

Lesson 1 learned....bought an electric start outboard before the next trip.

Lesson two learned...never tie off to the bow and the stern in a high wind situation.

Lesson three learned...never be on the down wind side of something that can hurt you in high winds, like I was with the one shore line with the anchor chain up wind of me while I worked on it and it was attached to the dinghy and the dinghy took flight pulling the chain across me and knocking me out and also resulting in the fracture and two head injuries and a bad knee injury.

Lake Powell is beautiful but according to statistics one of the more dangerous bodies of water in the U.S.. I am going back to finish that trip though and...



... will beach the boat every chance I get ,

Sumner

============================

1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Sumner]

Has anyone tried an anchor bridle which uses non stretch line going from each side amidship to the bow anchor rode? .

I picture that the boat is going to want to pivot around one side or the other amidships once the wind catches the bow and blows it off in one direction or another. Take a round dowel that is say 1-2 inches in diameter, like say a foot long piece of closet rod, and attach a string to each side say 1/3 to 1/2 way down and then pick the rod up by the strings and see what happens to the top of the top end of the dowel. Is it stable?

Now attach the two strings to the top of the rod and pick it up. I'll stay with the lines to the bow. Now if you just have a bridle from two cleats on each side of the bow and attach to it that would be different but I don't think you want to move those attach points very far back on the boat.

Sumner

============================

1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[FlyboyTR]

.... The mushroom anchor hanging off the primary rode helps to act as a shock absorber and helps the primary anchor to maintain better contact.

FlyboyTR,

Can you post a diagram of what this looks like.

Ray

I will have to draw up something...but it will be crude!

[whgoffrn]

What you are talking about is what i was wondering if would work.....move the two cleats on the bow backmid ship....have a bridle of some form of non stretch rope or wire or whatever run up just a foot in front of the eye the trailer wench hooks to on a large d ring.....now hook that to the anchor rode ....maybe even 3 attachments boat eye hook at bow and both cleats midship either side all evenly connected to one d ring.....and that is the connection point to anchor rode

[Signaleer]

I'd love to see a video of a Mac at anchor at 45 mph or a Beaufort 8 Gale or Fresh Gale...

Snap one the next time you are in these conditions. It may help the question / answer as well.

Ed

[FlyboyTR]

This is a crude drawing of the system we have used over the years.
1, mushroom anchor rode with loops tied every 5 feet (this is only for convenience)
2, large snap hook with a tether line tied to it
3, determine water depth and which mushroom anchor rode loop is appropriate for conditions
4, attach snap hook to mushroom anchor rode loop (see above)
5, attach snap hook to primary anchor rode (this allows the snap hook and mushroom anchor to slide down the primary rode).
6, pay out the tether until things have settled...this will take a bit of learning...but after a few tries you will have a better understanding.

[opie]

Signaleer,
Here is the best I can do with your video request.
I used my bow eyelet method described above in this thread,
both rodes are down there, reducing the rode height above water.

Worked great at 40 KT gusts, 100 feet each rode, 6 feet of water.
Only a bit of video that relates to you, the rest is just about blowing sand,
You can skip that.....

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=k-gjKW0uX0c

[kurz]

This is a crude drawing of the system we have used over the years.
1, mushroom anchor rode with loops tied every 5 feet (this is only for convenience)
2, large snap hook with a tether line tied to it
3, determine water depth and which mushroom anchor rode loop is appropriate for conditions
4, attach snap hook to mushroom anchor rode loop (see above)
5, attach snap hook to primary anchor rode (this allows the snap hook and mushroom anchor to slide down the primary rode).
6, pay out the tether until things have settled...this will take a bit of learning...but after a few tries you will have a better understanding.

How heavy is your mushroom anchor? Is it not the same to put the anchor rode at the end to a heavier chain an the to the normal anchor? With this you will have the weight at the best place without have troubles with complicate organisations...

[NiceAft]

I was wondering the same thing.

The one potential advantage I see for having the mushroom anchor is that when the boat drifts left or right, the digging in, and thus the drag of the mushroom anchor might be greater than the drag of a long chain. As Kurz implied, I think that would really be proportional to the weight of the mushroom anchor.

I have now typed “mushroom anchor” more than I have ever thought I would

Ray

[FlyboyTR]

The mushroom anchor weighs 15 lbs. A mushroom anchor really doesn't dig in unless you have a sloppy muddy bottom. However, it still doesn't have much holding power. Trust me...if the wind shifted 90 degrees, with a good breeze...it will pull out and slide around. It does so much for stabilizing the boat. I have never had an issue using this method. Again...there is a small learning curve until you figure you what works best for you.

[Signaleer]

Signaleer,
Here is the best I can do with your video request.
I used my bow eyelet method described above in this thread,
both rodes are down there, reducing the rode height above water.

Worked great at 40 KT gusts, 100 feet each rode, 6 feet of water.
Only a bit of video that relates to you, the rest is just about blowing sand,
You can skip that.....

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=k-gjKW0uX0c

Opie,

Thanks for the post. Definitely good wind. More than I have ever been anchored in. And I suspect more than some other posters...

Looking at your ability to headstand...25 / 30 sustained? Gusting higher? What is the Beaufort rating for 'Can maintain headstand with some difficulty'? That's one I don't think I've heard.

Regardless of the speed, I've never been anchored in anything like that. Aat 100 feet of rode, 6 feet of water + 3 free board = 9 ft X 10+ ... sounds good so say the books right?

Great video, thanks! I'd love to see how you got there in those conditions... take a cameraman next time!

Great post.

Ed.

[whgoffrn]

Looking at your video i see your boat yaws like mine in high winds.....if you look at video starting at 1.27 t 1.37 within a 10 second window the anchors are about 30 degrees off port side of the boat and within just a short time is 30 degrees or so off starboard..... i do like your idea of using bow eyelet for added strength though

[Jonair222]

Bow anchor/s
+ Bucket drogue from Stern maybe
Just an idea

[Ixneigh]

I have a small danforth on 1/4 inch line that i can fling pretty far. Or motor up and drop if I need to.
That helps steady the boat if you set it at an angle to your main anchor. In really strong wind it probably would not help though. I've been in probably fifty.
Boat goes crazy. You can't do much. Just make sure everything's tied down. Lower the motor and board if you have depth. Have more anchor then you think you'd ever need. 25 pounds is a good size. two if you are actually expecting bad weather.
If I had to park the boat places were I had to run lines ashore I'd carry a cordless hammer drill and steel stakes.
Ix