Lakes and Rivers Boat?????

[Tomfoolery]

And yes. The flex is disconcerting to an ex keelboater.

Point of reference, my Hunter had some mild indentations when sitting on its cradle, where the pads contacted it. The marina dudes never put any real support under the keel, so too much was on the pads (flexi cradle, with keel sitting on a springy 'platform') as the pads were above the corner and side supports. Every fall I'd go there with a 12 ton bottle jack, stack some lumber under the keel area of the cradle, and lower the bow and stern a little at a time until 2/3 of the weight (guestimate, per Hunter's recommendation) was on the keel and the oil canned hull was no longer. But like the Macs, the hull was heavy where it needed to be, but would flex in the thinner areas, especially with improper loading.

[BOAT]

Hull flex was something I was greatly concerned about when I was shopping. Everyone told me the hull flex was something to avoid so I was all over it when I was shopping for boats - in particular the X boat at first. It was really the X boat that proved the hull on the MAC 26 because it was the first one with the thin skin. I found in my research that ALL the boats were going to a thin skin and some were also going carbon fibers instead of glass fibers.

In the 80's the boat makers were still experimenting and everyone wanted the carbon thinking it would be superior, but it turned out the epoxy boats were the best at taking the flex. The race boats started using epoxy and carbon and quite a debate started on what was best - but one thing was settled once and for all: FLEX WAS GOOD.

The modern way to make the hull was thin and flexible so that it would not crack on impact. That is the more modern way to do it.

After so many years of the thin skin X boat outlasting so many other thick hulled boats and also taking damage better than the thick boats the verdict was in - the thin skin with the engineered woving (alternate directions) was by far the superior hull. Better than the heavy thick hull. The idea is to squeegee out all the excess resin to eliminate weight and also prevent cracking under impact. With carbon they use a vacuum to get all the plastic out. There is a bending stress/ratio for plastic and the thinner it is the more it can bend before it breaks - the thicker plastic breaks under very slight bending.

The only reason for stiffening the hulls and decks with foam inserts and other glassed beam creations is for customer satisfaction and marketing > sales.

Roger said he added the stiffeners to the M boat after the X only to address customers - it had no real design advantages. The way Hunter addressed the same issue was to add solid grid resin cores that eventually resulted in complaints because the dense cores got waterlogged and deteriorated. It does not hurt the structural integrity of the boat that they got waterlogged since just like Rogers Glassed beams, they really added no real structural advantage in the first place. All they did was make the boat "feel" stiffer to the customer.

I had to learn about the modern fiberglass manufacturing and how it had changed before I realized flex was okay. Some guys still are very uncomfortable with it. It's harder for us old guys.

[Highlander]

Pedigree for sure but the Boeing 747 first flight was in 1969 so I hope they updated the software ....

lets see u see any hobbie33 or other keel boat haul butt like this

Mast Up or Down
http://vid844.photobucket.com/albums/ab ... 010002.mp4

Lots of hull flexing goin on here !

J

[BOAT]

Pedigree for sure but the Boeing 747 first flight was in 1969 so I hope they updated the software ....

lets see u see any hobbie33 or other keel boat haul butt like this

Mast Up or Down
http://vid844.photobucket.com/albums/ab ... 010002.mp4

Lots of hull flexing goin on here !

J

Yeah, we see the Hobies going over 30 knots all the time over here in Oceanside where they are built.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXSgZCDVWOM

And I can tell you they flex alot too.

[Neo]

Thanks for all the replied guys.... I was out sailing yesterday and I'm now getting ready for my Trans Atlantic Crossing ..... Just kidding!!

[sailboatmike]

Hi All,

A few week back I sailed in a Magnum, which a respected Trailer Sailer here in Aus. It has a hydraulically operated and heave keel (center board) which keeps it upright but you could easily heel the deck into water if your weren't ready to depower the main. I've not been able heeled that far over in my Mac even when there was no ballast so the Magnum did'nt impress me in that respect.
I had and good look around the boat. Sure the hull was more solid and tiller was great to work with but other fixtures and fittings did'n't really impress me.

Last weekend I sailed our local lake (Brisbane Water) with some new found sailing skills I learnt on the Magnum. I had my first race with a proper yacht, 30ft'er. They were flying a Main and a Genoa but all I had was my old main because my furler had jammed. The admiral was complaining about all the heeling so I kept having to depower but we still beat them both times (two tacks) hands down!!

So my question .... Is the Mac really only a Lakes and Rivers Boat?.... or for coastline sailing, is it just as good as all the other Trailer Sailers out there?

Please provide your thoughts on this?

All the best.
Neo

I have had exactly the same experience, I went racing on the other Aussie Go Fast racer . cruiser being the Austral 8 clubman I found it very tender even with its 350Kg of lead under the water in comparison to the X boat, it went nicely to windward , but one would hope it would as the sails had to be worth around $7,000 maybe more.

These are great and under rated sail boats, as someone said earlier, many sailing noobs bought Macs as they could play with sailing and yet have a power boat, of course a 1/2 decent sailor in bathtub would be able to outsail these noobs, many are not interested in learning the finer points of sailing, they are just happy to throw up a bit of canvas and bob along, then motor when they want to go somewhere.

No issue with this, thats what these boats are about, Im sure they are far better sail boats than they will ever get credit for

[BOAT]

I'm holding out for this one:

[JotaErre]

macs are good coastal cruisers. I know some guys who have even sailed their Macs from mainland Spain to the Balearic Islands and back.

[Mac26Mpaul]

I have just had to look up the Balearic Islands, and have now decided I want to sail there someday too

https://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl ... _B0IjAEwDg

[Neo]

I have just had to look up the Balearic Islands, and have now decided I want to sail there someday too

Holy molly !.... Count me in .... we'll make it a convoy

[dlandersson]

Hey, I have fun, don't judge me.

These are great and under rated sail boats, as someone said earlier, many sailing noobs bought Macs as they could play with sailing and yet have a power boat, of course a 1/2 decent sailor in bathtub would be able to outsail these noobs, many are not interested in learning the finer points of sailing, they are just happy to throw up a bit of canvas and bob along, then motor when they want to go somewhere.

[NiceAft]

Hey, I have fun, don't judge me.

These are great and under rated sail boats, as someone said earlier, many sailing noobs bought Macs as they could play with sailing and yet have a power boat, of course a 1/2 decent sailor in bathtub would be able to outsail these noobs, many are not interested in learning the finer points of sailing, they are just happy to throw up a bit of canvas and bob along, then motor when they want to go somewhere.

Be fair

He did also say :

No issue with this, thats what these boats are about, Im sure they are far better sail boats than they will ever get credit for

Ray

[Ixneigh]

They are also very roomy for those who spend a lot of time on them. I was reminded again of this on boarding an older 27ft keel boat. It was tiny inside. Might be a lot more seaworthy but most of my use of the boat is spend at anchor or day sailing.
Ix

[sailboatmike]

Hey, I have fun, don't judge me.

These are great and under rated sail boats, as someone said earlier, many sailing noobs bought Macs as they could play with sailing and yet have a power boat, of course a 1/2 decent sailor in bathtub would be able to outsail these noobs, many are not interested in learning the finer points of sailing, they are just happy to throw up a bit of canvas and bob along, then motor when they want to go somewhere.

Be fair

He did also say :

No issue with this, thats what these boats are about, Im sure they are far better sail boats than they will ever get credit for

Ray

I dont judge anyone, each to their own, Im hardly a flash sailor, the point is a friend was telling me that many years ago someone at his club bought down their newly acquired 26X and then proceeded to make a hash of sailing it after inviting the club hot shots on board, so everyone got the idea that it was the boat that wouldnt sail,

I invited one onboard last month and briefed him on how he needed to modify his sailing habits and gave him a few Mac X specific tips, then gave him the helm, he loved it and how easily it was driven, he is now a convert to the Macgregor.

I have heard the above scenario at least a couple of times, while the X is a fine sail boat, if you try and sail it like a conventional boat it will just look stupid,