Anchors

[Don T]

Hello:
Since the boat is going to sail no matter what, I choose to do the "if you can't fix it - feature it" mode. I juggle triangles of fore sheet, varying amount of centerboard and direction of rudder (or not) to balance the boat's behavior. What I strive for is the boat staying on one tack. It increases the force on the rode but I don't think it is any more than the surge load when it has to change directions swaying back and forth. When the wind gusts up or blows steady the boat may heal some but it remains pretty much in place. Adding the full enclosure changed the boat's behavior a lot. Current adds another factor to deal with. I have to get up at night sometimes to change settings but overall it works well.

One thing I took note of: How other boats, even other Macs, seemed to sway less. I rowed over to talk to them to see what they were doing different and before I could ask they said it appeared we swayed less and they asked how we did it. So, some of it seems to be our perception.

[Tom Root]

Well, I have had 2 other Macs on a hook before (both Ventures) and they never had this problem. I did have a hook let go once when diving, and we broke a golden rule of NOT diving the anchor line on 1st decent, but that's a long story! Experience's make you wise! I will try and use some sail, that sounds reasonable. Murv Barry (VYCSD club member) seems to think those rocker stoppers may be the answer, or if there would be a way to rig a small sail in the stern area? Anyone tried these remedies, or other thoughts?

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

We were at one moorage two years ago (On a parks mooring buoy rather than our anchor) in 20+ knots wind and the view out the companionway passed by so fast it made you dizzy. I was at least encouraged to see that the power boat behind us was also swinging at a dizzying pace in sync with us. I tried a lot of different things with the bridle on the buoy. None had a dramatic impact. I went close up, far back, tied to the bow eye, and still we swung close to 180 degrees of arc. The one thing I didn't try is what some have said works, an offset bridle from the bow cleats to a stern cleat that would park the boat at 30 to 40 degrees to the wind keeping only a single side to the wind. I think this would be worth a try. Even though it would look goofy I think I may also try stern first just for grins as well.

Last summer with my full enclosure the boat seems more settled than in previous years. The Dowsar enclosure is the tallest of then all, particularly at the back. I think this extra surface area at the stern has dampened the swinging. This leads me to srtongly believe that a riding sail flown off the backstay would be effective as well. I'm going to make one up and give it a try this summer. Like the feathers on an arrow, it would keep a single side toward the wind.

[Frank C]

I'm a little late joining this topic:

re primary anchor - The Bulwagga lifts across my roller without hitting the bow. It stows on the roller exactly like my former Claw. If I lost my Bulwagga, I'd dive for it. If I didn't find it, I'd buy another. One morning the Bull was set so well we had to motor across it to break free - mud. Another time, my Mate was idling the motor as I raised the Bull. I like to pull it free and let it hang to clear debris. The turning prop pushed us into shallower water and the Bull grabbed again. I nearly lost my thumb between chain and cleat - so be careful to define some procedures for raising.

re secondary anchor - I have the G-11 Guardian (6 lb. alum), and it is 300% better than the West Marine steel fluke that it replaces. Either would fit entirely within the Xboat anchor locker. I only bought the Bul to prepare for a cruise to the Santa Barbara channel, deeper anchorages and up to 4 feet of ocean swell.

re chain - a short 6-foot chain is fine if you always anchor in 12 to 15 feet depth. Off the coast, anchorages are closer to 25 to 35 foot depths, where the rode's catenary angle demands more chain for safety. I use 15 feet of chain on my Bull. That is way more than needed for shallow Bay and lake conditions, and more chain is a hassle to deal with, both when weighing and stowing. It's welcomed when depths are greater.

re rocking - At times, the ocean swell had our boat rocking crazily, to repeated heel angles of 15 degrees on each side, nearly sickening. Rocker-stoppers helped. We rigged three each side, tied to the hip stanchions, each weighted with a 12# mushroom. They don't do anything for swinging. One morning they were tangled in the rodes, so best to rig them somewhat shallow.

re swinging - most of us have seen the landscape flying past the companionway. Off the coast, we set two anchors at 45* off the bow, perhaps good for safety but did little to solve the swinging. Usually had a twist or two in the morning, so we know the boat had fully clocked. This is another reason I keep all boards up. I won't anchor bow and stern in tidal area, not safe, but others did so. Considering how it grabs the bottom, I think the solitary Bull would have been fine and secure - next time no twisted rodes. I want to try the fore-to-aft bridle for swinging, and also a sail from boom to backstay. A triangle of tarp would be fine for testing.

in summary - I'd rather have a Bulwagga than any other anchor. If I had to limit the cost .... I think the small Bull @ $150 might be adequate for the Mac. It would also be lighter and smaller to stow. I may get one for the stern with a short chain - quick and easy to manage for just a lunch drop.

Agree with a comment elsewhere ... the cost of an anchor versus multi hundreds for GPS, sails, axles ... IT'S A DROP IN THE BUCKET, considering peace of mind. Pay me now and enjoy the ride for the next ten years, or suffer 25 bucks a year while the patent runs out.

[Tom Root]

I am really going to consider the Bulwagga....peace of mind it seems. The situation I referred to before I must add I was on the anchor alarm on my 2 GPS's but had false alarms by the extreme movement, back and forth, that I disabled it on both of them! Maybe we own the 1st horizontal plane pendulums in history!

So where can one find a "box" type anchor, the all knowing Google search turned up nothing. Do you have a reference, or description possibly?

[Chip Hindes]

Box Anchor

There was a discussion of the box anchor on the previous board. I honestly don't remember if anyone had actually tried one, but I seem to recall that the consensus was: garbage. Or maybe that was just my own comment .

Anybody who claims their anchor requires no chain either knows nothing about anchoring a boat, or is lying, so everything else in the marketing blurb is suspect.

[Tom Root]

Chip, Thanks for the link, now that's one really wierd looking device! It decribes that it resets itself if it where to be flipped over. Four flukes on that baby, and it does fold. The only immediate concern I have with it is that I would have to figure out how to have readily stowed tor immediate deployment. Lay it across the bow? That will be a good snag point for a headsail!! Testimony in a previous post said that someone swears by it. It's a shame Consumer Reports ( Or some entity like it ) has not focused on non-biased reviews and tests for us boaters. That's why a board like this has great value, people aren't afraid to make their opinion known! But again, what works for some, may not work for others.

I clicked on the link, and it did say that chain is required for heavy sea use, and I agree, this is something that must be used. An all chain rode would of course be very difficult to accomodate on our type of boat though. but a windlass would help. This is not that practical either. Even the current setup I have, the 1st mate can not retrieve the anchor, so I get that duty, exclusively.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I would agree that if you are able to anchor in shallow 5'-10' water, particularly a lake with no tide you can probably get by with 5'-10' of chain. In calm shallow spots (5') on the lake I find I am forced to use more rode than I need just to get past the chain so I can tie to the cleat. Out on the sound up here the change from the higher high to the lower low is difference of 12' to 14'. I always figure I need to be in a minimum of 20' of water at high tide. I wouldn't want to tackle these conditions with less than 15' of chain. The tide book is essential up here when anchoring so you can do the math and figure out where you are in the cylce to make sure you won't go dry overnight.

As some have noted the Guardian G11, 6lbs does fit in the locker. The G16, 7lbs, which I have does not fit in the locker. The 14lb steel danforth that came with my boat did fit in the locker.

I don't like the idea of just one anchor on the bow in the locker. It's not readily available to deploy in an emergency. Stuff always seems to happen at the worst time and I want to be able to drop the hook instantly to keep the boat off the rocks. In particular I don't like hearing about some people who keep their anchoring system in pieces below and have to do some assembly before they can deploy one.

For a while I had one in the locker and one on a bracket on the bow pulpit. This made it quick to deploy the pulpit anchor, but the two rodes in the locker always ended up a mess. I could have the neatest most organized coiling system and I still ended up with a mess after a night or two of anchoring, particularly if I set out two anchors. Having to move a anchor out on deck to mess with the rodes was also more trouble than it was worth.

This led to turning the locker completely over to the rodes with a divider down the center to eliminate any tangling. Now my rodes are never tangled and both anchors can be sent over the side in seconds.

I am still impressed with the bulwagga and may yet bite the bullet. I would say if you are going to do it, get the right one, the $250 one, not the undersized $150 one. While you may get by for a while, the time will come where you will wish you had the right one for the boat. I wouldn't mind just having the bull on the roller and keeping the guardian dis-assembled below for when I wanted two out with the hope that most of the time one would be all I needed.

If the bull lives up to all the testimonials, it sounds like having just one out would be great provided the swinging can be tamed by some means. If that can't be done then two anchors is the only way to make the mac stay in one spot and be a good neighbor to those around you. I always seem to end up next to the boat on the all chain rode that doesn't swing at all.

I also agree that it is not best to anchor bow and stern in a tidal area. I've never even used any anchor off the stern. I don't like the ideal of being the one boat in the anchorage that doesn't swing with the wind and current changes. I just don't want to swing as much as I currently do.

What I find works best in a location where you know you are going to do a 180 is two anchors off the bow set 180 degrees from each other. Adjust the rodes so you are centered between them and you will rotate with the changes and spend some time on one and some on the other anchor as the current changes, but you won't end up swinging through a large full scope arc. You also will likely end up with twisted rodes in the morning. This method works great for parking close to a shore line with a parallel current running that reverses during each tide change. This is very common up here around the small islands.

[Chip Hindes]

Tom: Glad to do it; Semper Fi, Leatherneck.

There is such a magazine as you hoped for; it's Practical Sailor. Although some have questioned their objectivity, on what grounds I'm not certain. Like Consumer Reports they accept no advertizing and are supported by subscription fees. Unlike Consumer Reports, I believe they allow the use of reprints of their reports for sales and marketing purposes for a fee.

Given the fairly limited market for their mag compared to Consumer Reports, I think you'll have to accept this as "good as it gets". They simply don't have the funds to go out and purchase all their test items anonomously on the open market. Many of the items they test are submitted by the manufacturers, boat tests are on loaners or dealer models. This opens up the possibility of ringers or specially prepared "test mules", but what else are they gonna do? A read of some of their tests reveals that they appear not to pull punches, when something's crap they say it's crap. Based on that alone it's understandable why some might not like what they're saying. Heck, Consumer Reports is a pretty powerful outfit and they regularly get sued by the manufacturers for a bad rating.

I think West Marine stuff provides a good example; they're easy to compare since they make so many different category items. I've seen a West Marine item listed near the top, and a month later a different West Marine item listed dead last.

Obviously there's a problem in that there are so many things they could test, it may take many years for them to get around to testing a particular item. In this particular case they tested anchors in 2000-2001 and it will likely be several more years before they get around to testing them again, so don't hold your breath on test results for the Box anchor.

I have purchased my Bulwagga, inflatable dinghy, handheld VHF and cruising first aid kits all based on PS recommendations. Although I can't say that the stuff I didn't buy might not have been better, the stuff I did buy was all exactly as they stated, and I've been quite happy in every case.

[Steve]

Marisafe has an anchor I'm interested in on Ebay, here is the item number: Ebay Item number: 2467354810

This looks like a pretty good anchor, what do you think?

Steve

[Chip Hindes]

Deleted. Sorry, best I could do on the double post.

[Chip Hindes]

Looks like the economy version of Claw or the Bruce, neither of which was highly rated in the Practical Sailor test. The big problem with this one, however, is the weight; at 33 pounds it's way oversize for the Mac. Plus however much chain you add, yanking this baby out of the bottom and up over the (mandatory) bow roller does not look like something you'd be able to do reasonably by hand.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Since you are out of Nashville and I would guess that you are in lakes and rivers that usually have muddy bottoms. This is not the forte of the Bruce (and it's Claw and Manta clones). It is a better anchor in hard, rocky, and weed fouled bottoms. Soft mud does not suit it well. I have the Horizon Claw 16.5 lb. This is the right size for the Mac and it works well everywhere up here except in the mud of the lake. You certainly would be well anchored with the 33 lb version but as Chip says I don't think I'd want to hual up one double the weight of mine. The other bad thing about the bruce design is that it can become snaged under logs and does not have the revering out option like the bulwagga. You can attach a trip line to the hole in atthe top back and pull it out from snags that way, provided you anticipate this before it is stuck.

My 16.5 lb sold new for $89.

[Steve]

Well, I'm actually looking for one for the Florida Gulf. I was thinking this might be a good one?

Steve

Would this plow on Ebay be better: Item number: 2467354661

[Frank C]

... This led to turning the locker completely over to the rodes with a divider down the center to eliminate any tangling. Now my rodes are never tangled and both anchors can be sent over the side in seconds.

I am still impressed with the bulwagga and may yet bite the bullet. I would say if you are going to do it, get the right one, the $250 one, not the undersized $150 one. ... I wouldn't mind just having the bull on the roller ... with the hope that most of the time one would be all I needed.

If the bull lives up to all the testimonials, it sounds like having just one out would be great provided the swinging can be tamed by some means. ... what I find works best in a location where you know you are going to do a 180 is two anchors off the bow set 180 degrees from each other. Adjust the rodes so you are centered between them and you will rotate with the changes ...

I have the rodes over and under in the locker, with the Guardian itself dividing them. I've not experienced tangling of the separate rodes. Flaking them individually when raising each anchor is quite natural. Maybe the secondary's chain, plus the Guardian anchor itself, helps to protect the secondary rode at locker's bottom.

Regarding Bulwagga testimonials, anyone who hasn't yet seen the quick videos of the Bulwagga resetting itself, the proof is in the mud! Go to their product page (Bulwagga movies) and scan the pictures, one of which is animated. If your link is broadband, click & download the "anchorReset" movie (sorry, 3 megabytes). They actually show one being pulled over top. It resets after dragging all of 3 feet or so. Amazing! Watch this video and you'll be convinced. This is why I'd feel safe with the solitary Bull, given ample searoom for the rode to clock a full circle. However, parts of Santa Cruz island give one pause. Anchoring on open ocean with nothing but cliffs and rocks toward the land ... this would make an opposing Bull so nice to have.

I agree about setting 2 anchors 180 degrees apart. In perfect execution, this would limit swing to a 26' radius (well, maybe 50' with a sentry). In fact, it may well eliminate sailing on the rode. The Bull sets instantly, and the smaller one could surely be stern-set by hand, no motor, then walked to the bow. This makes the Bahamian moorage a no-brainer. No matter how much I like my Guardian, it's not so fool-proof. Bulls set so quickly, and rock-solid, that they eliminate all of the uncertainty of anchoring. It would make opposing rodes so much easier. Sailnet article on opposing anchors, Bahamian moorage ...

I'm serious about the smaller Bull. As tenaciously as the 16 pounder grabs, it's clear that the design does the work. I think the smaller 9# Bull on 12 feet of chain might be ample for our relatively light boat ... and it's certainly ample as a secondary. Remember, when they recommend it for a 26' boat, that's an average that includes heavy keel boats and heavy power boats too (freeboard notwithstanding). I may just retire my Guardian. and leave only one longer rode (300') in that bow locker!