New Dinghy

[Chip Hindes]

Sounds like you went for price instead of quality.

Most people on this board who question the decisions of others at least have the courage to use a real name.

I believe you're confused. We're not talking dime store PVC here. I've read that the polyester reinforced PVC material used in the higher quality inflatables (Zodiac and West Marine made by Zodiac are two) is as durable as Hypalon, though not as resistant to sunlight. I believe you'll also find theat Avon, which now owns Zodiac, is no longer making the same claims about the superiority of Hypalon as they used to make before they owned Zodiac. Could be strictly marketing; so could the original claims.

Unproven in what way? I believe Zodiac has been making these for over 30 years.

[Mark Prouty]

You spent $1000 on a no name, chinese made, PVC inflatable?! TAKE IT BACK! Get a quality name brand wood floor Hypalon that last forever. Air floors are a problem with dogs claws, gear oil and gas spills and loose 10 % of power due to floor flex. They are still unproven and wait until you pull it up on a rock beach and get a hole tear. Sounds like you went for price instead of quality.

My Mercury airdeck has never been a problem. I used it heavily last year. Cleaned-up, it still looks like new. I've spilled gas and oil on it, given my dog a ride and pulled it up on some pretty rocky areas. As a friendly challenge, please provide prove that airdecks loose 10% of power due to floor flex. The keel seems pretty solid under proper air pressure. Mine zips along real well.

Also:
Although they're not Hypalon, I noticed Maxxon's have a ten year warranty.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

While it is made in China, Maxxon is hardly a no name brand. They have been selling their boats world wide for over 20 years. They were originally a Korean company and even though they now manufacture in China they are still Korean run. They are widely know and respected in Australia and Europe. You will also find that a number of what you call name brand boats are actually built by companies suchas Maxxon offshore. Like that shiny new Yamaha boat, you just bought a Maxxon.

I was a stuck on the hypalon story as well. But the more I did research the more I became convinced that the PVC boats are every bit as durable. West Marine and Practical Sailor have both stated this in their recent material. Hypalon's sole remaining selling point is it's UV resistance. My boat will only be in the sun when we are using it, the rest of the year it will be stored inside. Up here in the Pacific Northwest exposure to the sun is not a problem. Avon is the only manufacturer left stuck on Hypalon. Everyone else recognizes that PVC is a equally good choice.

This boats PVC material is every bit as heavy duty as the west marine or the Zodiac product. Don't confuse it with the cheap vinyl boats or the light duty Costco PVC boats. It is a very well made product with extras the Zodiac boats don't have at half again the price. They cheapest comparable zodiac boat is the zoom line 10'2" at $1,699.

As for the wood floor, no way. That would be the last choice in my book. They are such a pain to assemble I would go for a RIB with a folding transom before I'd go with the old style wood floor. But let me guess, the folding transom RIB is to much of a new unproven idea for you as well.

A requirement from the start for a dinghy for us has been the ability to store the boat rolled on the bow, unroll and inflate it without any hassel, on the bow. And then motor well with our family aboard using the 6hp motor we own. Only three styles of boats can meet these requirements. The slatted floor ones which we already had and don't like at all. The plastic rolling floor ones of which I have only found an Avon at well over $2000, and the new air floors. I feel the air floor has moved well beyond the unproven stage. That fact that every manufacturer out there now makes one is a statement to their acceptability. Is it as stiff as wood? Some say yes. The most recentent review in Practical Sailor found theri performance to be great. Do I care if it isn't? No. I'm not going to be racing the boat. It's a tender for the mac, not the primary ride. My 6hp motor has more than enough power that if I give away 10%, which I doubt I will, then I still have plenty of power. I really don't care if it only goes 16mph instead of 18mph. Going faster than 10mph will be a rare event. If I wanted performance I'd skip all boats with an inflatable keel, including the wood floor ones, and get a RIB.

As for the rocks, you obviously don't even understand what an air floor is. Both the wood floor boat and the air floor boat have exactly the same exterior fabric hull and durability. The air floor, like the wood floor sit's above the inflated keep and the hull fabric and simply provides a surface to walk on and spreads the boat side to side and front to back. The air floor is not exposed to the water just as the wood floor is not exposed to the water. Neither play any part in the hull durability of the boat. In a way you are safer with the air floor. The boat itself has three air chanbers in the side tubes, a fourth in the keel, and now a fifth in the air floor. You have to get a lot of holes to sink.

[Mark Prouty]

Can't slight Duane for not doing his homework!

[Rich Smith]

I was at the Toronto Boat show this winter and watched while two guys held an airfloor about 3 feet off the ground while a third guy (about 190 pounds) stood on it. Seems like it's the way to go...I ended up buying a zodiac cadet fastroller acti-v with airfloor...now if I could just find a motor

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

That Zodiac Cadet fast roller was high on my list. It is unique in that the high pressure air floor is linked to the keel chamber so you get a a high pressure keel as well which makes it stiffer. Only problem was the 9'4" one is $2,250 at boaters world. It was Practical Sailors top choice.

The other unique thing it has is a set of small fins out side the hull that improve tracking. I am surprised that it doesn't have a keel rub strake. Of all the boats PS tested only the Mercury boats had this. The Maxxon has it.

The west marine High Pressure 350 Speedster has a similar thing. They have added two more inflatable chambers outside the hull on the bottom to give it more lift and tracking. To big for us at 11'6" and $3,599.

Another difference I notice in looking at the bottom side pictures in the Practical Sailor review is that the Maxxon carries the vee shape all the way aft more than any of the boats in the picture. The bottom of the maxxon transom has a more pronouced vee while some in the review have a slight vee and many are just straight. I think this will enhance the tracking performance of the Maxxon.

Another interesting thing in the PS article is they note that the two way hand pump that came with the Mercury boats was far superior to the foot pumps. I may have to fine one of these. With a HP floor it makes sense to have a pump with a good gauge. The Maxxon has foot pump with no gauge.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I've been real happy with the coleman cordless inflator I bought a couple months ago. I was a bit hesitant at first because it only came with a 120V power cord instead of 12V. But then I misplaced the power cord for a while and it must have blown up about 20 air mattresses worth before the battery finally went dead. Seems like it would be great for a dinghy.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

We went out in the new dingy for the first time yesterday evening. I'm quite impressed.

Now that I've had a chance to take a close look at the Maxxon Dinghy and compare it to the name brands I've even more pleased I bought it. I've found nothing else that comes close in material, construction, and price. The fabric is heavier than the Zodiac Zoom fabric I looked at yesterday in Boaters World and the construction is first rate. I was checking out some Avon boats and the cuts at the seams wavered here and there. The Maxxon fit and finish is excellent.

I really like the three compartment exterior tube with the equalization panels. These make it real easy to get all three at an even pressure. The air floor is very stable to walk on, I was expecting more squish. While it is hard as a board side to side and front to back, it does have some flex up and down which lets it absorb the impacts with wakes so you don't get a bouncy ride. The 5th keel compartment really makes it track nice.

We took it out on Lake Washington for the test, just my wife and I. I pulled our 6hp Yamaha two stroke out of the shed where it has been stored for the last 5 years. When it was put away years ago it was just taken off our 21' Venture and hooked on it's wall bracket. Nothing was done to prep it for storage, it wasn't even run out of gas. I attached it to to the dinghy and it started right up on the second pull. Ran great, Not bad after sitting for 5 years.

With my wife and I on board the Maxxon hit just over 13mph on the Etrex GPS with the 6 hp Yamaha. There was a bit of a chop on the lake so it might do even better on flat water. It gets up on a plane quite nicely. The handling is great. We are very happy. Having this dinghy and motor along on the Desolation Sound trip is going to greatly increase our ability to go exploring.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

That is the same size I bought. You will be glad you went with the larger size. I haven't put it on the bow to inflate there yet but I don't think there will be any problem with it fitting. Our previous inflatable was a 8'6" and it fit fine with room to spare. The 15" extra length shouldn't be a problem at all, and I think it will also fit between the life lines. The bow can always ride up the pulpit a bit.

I found I could just unroll it with the transom at the mast and stand inside it to inflate our previous one. I think I will do the same, with the new one. I'll inflate the 3 perimeter tubes from inside. Then step out next to the mast to inflate the floor. The floor valve is well aft and should be easy to inflate from there. I may wait to do the keel tube until it is over the side in the water. The floor could even be done in the water as well. We are considering getting a 12v pump made for the air floor boats. You just select the pressure you want and it shuts off when it's full. They're not cheap, but it would make it much easier to inflate so we would most likely be more willing to pull it from the water rather than tow it all the time. To save money I may just get a lower pressure electric pump to do the bulk of the work and then do the final top up to the higher pressure by hand. I haven't decided how much money I want to spend yet. I've had no problems with the foot pumps up to now so I may just stick with that. All I need to add is a good gauge.

I still need to make a test trip, try inflating it and handling it on the boat and see how it tows. Our previous flat bottom one was OK towing up to 11 or 12 knots. This one should be even better. I'm also considering making a setup like this, Dinghy Tow. We have a beefy ladder on the port transom that hinges down nicely and looks like it could be adapted to serve as the stand off for a system like this. I just have to fabricate some sort of bracket that will mate with it. We'll see if I have enough time to experiment with it.

With this boat I will use my lifting sling for sure. It is just some line with two loops that slip ove the end of the aft tubes and a third that attaches to the bow eye. There is a ring that hooks on the jib halyard. this makes it easy to lift the boat off the deck. I may adapt my whisker pole to serve as a standoff to make it even easier to swing over the side. Take a look at the Universal Dinghy Lift on page 237 of the west marine catalogfor a picture of how this will work.

I am mounting a trolling outboard bracket on the starboard transom to carry the motor. It will also be able to be lowered to serve as a backup motor for the Mac. My old '96 has the transom mounted mast carrier which can swivel outboard quite nicely and serve as a lifting crane for the motor. I have put a lifting harness on the motor and with a simple block and tackle can hoist the motor off the bracket and lower it onto the dingy transom.

[Frank C]

Duane,
Thanks for a lot of valuable research. I'd been sold on the Walker Bay rigid 8'. It would completely avoid inflating/deflating, weighs same as your Maxxon, should stow easily on the bow w/ some adaptation of your lifting rig. Also, it should be adaptable to the dinghy-tow that you found. (And, yes, it has only half the capacity.)

Your new Maxxon looks great. You mentioned 1100 dernier, but at least one of your linked sources quoted 1000 dernier, same as the eBay special that Steve found ... think that one might be a Maxxon too? I'm kinda partial to Steve's little 4-stroke Honda ... think its 2 horses would move your new dinghy?

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I think the 2hp would certainly move the dinghy, but I doubt it could climb up on a plane like it does with the 6hp. Part of my reasoning in sticking with the 6hp rather than selling it and going smaller is that on it's storage bracket on the transom it can also serve as a second motor for the mac. I expect the 6hp will move the mac at 4 or 5 knots. Now we'll have triple redundancy, the 50, the 6 and of course the sails.

For me the Walker Bay can't handle the duty. My previous dinghy has 550lb capacity and that wasn't enough for the whole family. I also wouldn't be able to stand driving around with the hard boat on the bow. We like to be able to ride up there and I can't give up the use of the hatch. The rolled up dinghy sits nicely just behind the hatch at the base of the front windows. It even makes a nice seat there. Dealing with the inflation is not an issue for me.

Actually I haven't found any documentation, but looking at the Mercury boats like Steve has there a large amount of similarities in design and construction. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they OEM there product from Maxxon just like Yamaha does. I do think the one on eBay is not a Maxxon as it doesn't have the same features. From what I can gather the 1000 dernier and the 1100 decitex are the same fabric thread count measurment. Mine says it is 1100 decitex in it's documentation.

[Tom Spohn]

Duane,
I was very interested in your reference to Dinghy Tow. Awhile back I sent them an inquiry about a system for the Mac. They answered they did not have such a system. I still have it in my mind that such a system could be made and in conjunction with some type of radar arch the dinghy could be stored in port completely out of the water. With this idea the dinghy could be left inflated and attached all the time without having to worry about inflating and deflating on every trip. You could motor to your destination with the dinghy out of the water and then drop it in and tow it when sailing and gunkholing. If the arms were long enough the dinghy could be towed backwards with only a small piece of the bow in the water with no problems. Of course the geometry of the arms would have to clear the rudders and tilting engine. Remaining problem would be how to board the dinghy with such long arms.

With your idea of using the boarding ladder would you tow the dinghy off-center? Would you connect to the stern or bow of the dinghy?
Thanks,
Tom

[Don T]

Hello:
We stow our dingy on the port side completely out of the water. It allows us to motor at full speed. We can sail with it there but it will drag in the water if we heel way over. It gets in the way a little on a port tack but it's worth it not having to inflate and deflate at every anchorage. And, no dirty boat on the deck.

Here is a pic in the mods section
http://macgregorsailors.com/cgi-bin/mod ... record=245

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

My idea is to tow it stern first, off center to port. The ladder I have is NOT the standard small ladder you see on a lot of macs mounted between the rudder and motor. Mine is a much larger ladder mounted outboard of the port rudder. It can stick out without interfering with the rudder movement at all. The dingy transom bracket would wrap around the dinghy outboard and have a single joint where it attaches to the ladder. The joint would have the ability to rotate some in two directions. Perhaps something like a trailer hitch. Rather than the ball type I think the military ring/hook type would work. The dingy bracket would have a ring on it behind the motor. The bracket would probably have to be removable so you could tilt the motor up when using the dinghy. The ladder would have a upward facing locking hook. You would then lift the ladder up to about a 45 degree angle and this would lift the dinghy transom and motor clear of the water so only the nose is in the water ala the dingy tow. You would probably need a line from each side of the dingy transom to keep it straight much like the dingy tow uses the criss cross lines between their two stand offs to control side to side movement.

Dingy tow sells a curved pole version of their product as well. I think this could be adapted to the mac. You might even be able to use a straight pole version mounted between the motor and each rudder. I'd have to play around turning the wheel lock to lock to find out if there is a place that is interference free on both sides. I don't know what dingy tow wants for their system, but it sure looks like you could just buy a couple of stainless dinghy standoff bars with brackets. I have seen some at west and boaters world for about $70 each. You could create a system by adding some line and blocks.

Strapping the dingy to the side like that wouldn't work with the full size inflatables. At 5' wide by 10' long they are to large and heavy plus they don't have the flat bottom of vinyl dounut boats. Obviously the motor would also be a problem and personally I wouldn't want such a large obstruction to visibility. Hanging your dinghy like that is a good choice for your small light boat as they don't tow very well. The full size inflatable like I have is designed to be towed and that certainly is the simplest solution of all.

[HERNDON]

A friend has offer me an El Toro...this is an small sailboat
of which as a kid I sailed in the SF bay. How would a solid
skiff tow behind a Mac and what would you use to tow it?

Line diameter??? Would you use some form of plastic tubing on the
line divert its acceleration?

I am Lake sailing and it is not a life or death issue...

Rob