MacGregorSailors.com

A small suggestion for keeping up speed and not getting stopped dead in heavy short chop and bigger stuff that is real close together in high winds.
It is difficult to fall off a bit for speed before hitting the next wave when they are close together using the wheel. It tends to be somewhat non-responsive and gets even worse when your forward speed goes to zero. I have found that by locking the wheel down and steering with the mainsheet I can 'work' the boat heading to fall off a bit just before attacking each wave and then going hard too on the down side in order to maintain good forward speed.. If the waves are short but equal (not confused) you can develop a timing routine that get the boat up and systematically moving forward something like a skier in mogels. I've found this technique to be fun, exciting and rewarding (though a bit arobic). Of course, in a confused sea all bets are off. MM

Could someone pls concisely explain diff between: chops, seas, wind waves, swells for us newbies.

I'm still trying to set up my decision rule for when to take the boat out & when to keep it in the back yard. I know enough not to deal w/ winds greater than15 knots. But for just motoring out & fishing, I'm not sure what the wind wave/ swells criteria I should use.

Here's typical to rough conditions in my area. For calmer conditions, you would have to wait for. Would you guys say all the below would be too rough just for motoring for someone who has been out less than a dozen times?

TODAY...W WINDS 5 TO 15 KT...BECOMING SW IN THE AFTERNOON.
WIND WAVES 2 TO 3 FT. W SWELL 6 TO 8 FT AT 11 SECONDS.
SLIGHT CHANCE OF RAIN. PATCHY DENSE FOG THIS MORNING.
TONIGHT...S WINDS 10 KT.
WIND WAVES 2 FT. W SWELL BUILDING 7 TO 12 FT AT 12 SECONDS.
CHANCE OF RAIN.

WED...SE WINDS 5 TO 15 KT...BECOMING S IN THE AFTERNOON.
WIND WAVES 2 TO 3 FT. W SWELL 8 TO 13 FT AT 12 SECONDS.
CHANCE OF RAIN.
WED NIGHT...SW WINDS 5 TO 15 KT.
WIND WAVES 2 TO 3 FT. W SWELL 9 TO 14 FT.
RAIN LIKELY.

THANKSGIVING DAY...N WINDS 5 TO 15 KT...INCREASING TO 15 TO 25 KT.
WIND WAVES 2 TO 3 FT...INCREASING TO 2 TO 5 FT. NW SWELL 10 TO 15 FT.
SLIGHT CHANCE OF RAIN.

FRI...NW WINDS 5 TO 15 KT.
WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT. NW SWELL 8 TO 10 FT.
SLIGHT CHANCE OF RAIN.

SAT...NW WINDS 5 TO 15 KT.
WIND WAVES 2 TO 3 FT. NW SWELL 7 TO 9 FT.
SLIGHT CHANCE OF RAIN.

RHC - Good questions! Interpretations may vary somewhat for inland waters versus big water ... i.e. your coastal waters or the Gt Lakes. Here's my stab at answering.

• First, I think of Swell as the ocean's "breathing pattern," the general rise and fall across the surface, especially in deeper coastal waters ... the overall motion induced by weather patterns across thousands of miles. (Swell patterns change over a period of days ... note that your forecasted swell is growing larger through mid-week.)
  
  Wind Waves are the disturbance induced by local winds across the swell. They occur on top of the swell, shorter duration, choppy conditions that disturb the gentle rise & fall of the ocean. Hence the term Chop is a shorthand way to describe Wind Waves. Along CA coast, wind waves change daily, usually growing through each day, then subsiding at night as the winds die down. Add chop plus swell to gauge how much rise & fall the boat will experience ... this range of motion can even affect the sail trim as the boat changes attitude.
  
  'Seas' describes your generalized ocean conditions, swell plus wind waves.

As you suggest, winds up to 15 kt are fine, mild 2' or 3' chop atop swell of 6' or 8' ... all okay. As either winds & wind waves (generally coincident) or swell grow beyond this it becomes tougher to sail comfortably. Considering your forecast for Half Moon Bay's coast this week, and especially 25 kt with 10' swell ...
I'd watch football on Thanksgiving Day!

Also look at the intervals - "SWELL 6 TO 8 FT AT 11 SECONDS. " 11 or 13 seconds is a nice long time between the swells. If it was something like half that you would be getting hammered.

I wonder if the Mac will 'heave to' under some of the conditions described. I was once caught in heavy waters in Tampa Bay, with the Genny out, of course difficult to pull in with the furler, and it was unpleasant at very least. Simply motoring upwind or heaving to would have been good headwork.

Well Frank, I'm taking that cruise to Half Moon Bay day after Thanksgiving and taking on the swells and 15-25 knts wind. Bring it on! Just the admiral and I, and I know she can handle the rough stuff. I'll have to leave the dog with my folks because he, on the other hand, won't handle it all that well.

Stephen, you probably would have a much easier time if you had your main reefed. As for the genny, IMHO the Mac has no business flying a genny in anything over 12 knts wind. I was sailing in SoCal last Memorial Day in similar conditions with reefed main and partially furled jib and had no problems. My poor crew, on the other hand, was puking overboard, which resulted in us turning back.

Mad Mike, Really like your idea about steering with the mainsheet w/helm locked down. I recently started implementing this and it works great, though gives the arms a workout as you mentioned.

ADVENTURE POINTS!!! Fair seas & dry skies, Buddy!

I agree w/ you on the winds, 15 to 25 is fine. But that Thursday swell is 10 to 15 feet ... and 25 kt winds will whip up some big chop. At least you'll have that Evinrude torque behind you.

Sounds as if you're cruising down there? ... out the Golden Gate?
Going thru the Gate is likely to be your big challenge. Check the tides ... best to go out while slack, if possible. Best of luck, and be sure your VHF is hot, and have spare batts for that handheld VHF too!


p.s. Leon, got that Potti bolted down??

Thanks MM - Ill give that a shot next time Im in that sit..you caught it exactly - the seas were pushing us backwards and we had to frantically reverse the helm to keep the boat on the wind when that happened of course.

My guess is the Mac steering gear would not take too much of that

Ill also have to work on cleaning off the puke off the side of the boat from those seas....

Leon, got that Potti bolted down??

Got the mess cleaned up. I ordered a new holding tank, having paid for 2 day shipping but still hasn't arrived. If it doesn't arrive today, I guess I'll be using the small potti which came with the boat. We'll have to drink less wine, but the upside is the old unit has no pumpout valve to break. WHAT A NIGHTMARE THAT WAS

Good advice about the slack tide at the Golden Gate. The one time I went out, I did it backwards, having to re-enter during slack tide. Couldn't make any headway under sail and was thankful for the e-tec to get us back.

Looking forward to giving the new sails a workout

ChrisNorton wrote: One other note, some may remember I installed Sting Ray fins before this season on the engine. I've been torn about them all year. At first, I thought they contributed to extra rolling in heavier seas but I'm not certain about that after this storm. They absolutely bring the bow down at all speeds. You lose a good 1-3 mph off the top end. I've used them now for a good 30 trips but may take them off to see if handling is better without them.

SPECIAL SAFETY INFORMATION 26X (by Roger MacGregor)

Do not install a lifting hydrofoil on the cavitation plate of the outboard motor. These are airfoil shaped wings, offered in various sizes and shapes. Their purpose is to provide lift at the stern of the boat. This raises the stern and forces the bow down, allowing the boat to get up on a plane more quickly. If they do keep the boat level when coming up on a plane, the ballast tank may not drain completely when the boat is underway. You may think you have an empty tank, but you may not.

These hydrofoils create another problem when the boat turns or leans sideways while underway. The lift that they provide goes straight up the centerline of the outboard motor, adding a strong force to promote further leaning or capsize.

These devices can exert a large amount of force; enough to snap off the cavitation plate that is cast as part of the drive shaft housing. Avoid them.

What a great deal! This is better than an encyclopeia & it's free!
Happy thanks giving to all.