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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:49 am
by Catigale
A three or six position AC breaker panel runs 130 or 150 USD respectively from Defender
here
I believe you should have at least a master disconnect for the AC on board for safety reasons - I have both the master and local breakers for forward AC outlets, rear AC outlets and battery charger (this is more for convenience so that I can leave the boat on charger without worrying about other AC stuff being on)
I dont know 'marine electrical codes' but Im positive this is required equipment.
If your boat burns up due to a wiring fault, your insurance company may take a dim view of the cost savings....
If you use your AC for using tools or stereo while you are present, of course, then the cheap route would be fine. If you are going to leave it plugged in unattended, I wouldnt cheap out.
Thinking back of the state of most of the AC wiring I have seen at docks and marinas, I wouldnt trust their equipment for my safety, frankly.
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:01 am
by Moe
An important difference with marine code is the main breaker, even for single-phase 120VAC, must be a ganged double unit protecting both the hot and neutral line and be within the first ten feet of wire coming in from the inlet. A good marine panel will give you this main breaker, as well as the required red reverse polarity light between neutral and ground.
When it comes to just the wiring and connectors, it doesn't cost that much more to buy the tinned copper marine versions and do the job right, because we aren't using that much of it. After fishing wiring through some of the places you have to in this boat, you'll not want to have to be doing it again to replace it. I also think adhesive-lined heat shrink is worth the extra money.
For 120VAC outlets, I'd just use plastic contractor boxes and commercial GFCI receptacles. Note that 120VAC wiring shouldn't be bundled or run in conduit or electrical boxes, with low voltage or signal wiring. If you have to splice it (and I don't recommend doing that, especially in a bilge), the splices should be in an electrical box with a cover plate.
For the 12VDC outlets, I prefer the Marinco 12VRC with the sliding/threaded lock ring (search Defender for 12VRC, I can't make a URL work). Some of the other outlets I've used don't have enough threads for installing in fiberglass much thicker than 1/8". You don't have to use the provided square plate and screws, unless the panel is thicker than about 1". They also come with two female spade connectors you attach to your own wiring, not some thin wiring like some of the others.
I've read of marinas that won't let you plug in except with a 30 amp weatherproof, locking cable. These, as well as the boat's AC power inlet, can be expensive, but again are the right way to do it. FWIW, carrying that big thick cord in the C-18 isn't practical, and we're going Duane's route of all 15A. Blue Sea Systems has the ganged double breaker in 15A.
If you're going to mount a battery charger and inverter in the bilge, look for models that are "ignition protected" meaning they're sealed and explosive fumes can't get into them to be ignited. I think it was Paul S
who surmised hydrogen from charging batteries got into his inverter and resulted in a small explosion. Do I remember that right, Paul? A more practical reason for these is to keep moisture out and corrosion from damaging them.
It's less expensive to have some outlets wired to shorepower and others to the inverter. If you want the same outlets powered by both, you need a 3-pole transfer switch that switches hot, neutral, and ground. This keeps the neutral-ground bond at one and only one point, the source of power. If you don't switch the ground line, you could wind up as an alternate neutral-ground bond point for your entire dock, if the inverter bonds neutral and ground at its output, as it should. A three-pole 120VAC 30A transfer switch can be expensive.
--
Moe (taking a 60ยบ vacation day to work on the boat)
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:24 pm
by Divecoz
Get er done MOE , we are expecting a change in Temps by Thursday.
As for marine Grade wire? HUmmmm.
In fresh water only with no splices anywhere, near water /get those splices up high double crimp and no-ox adhesive shrink tube etc etc.
But Salt water? For Sure, Everyone should be using Marine Grade. Dealers should be using Marine Grade all the time for everything.
What I found so far on my 05M is just that. However if I had it to do again, I too would drive the extra 2 + hours R/T and use Marine Grade. As Moe said , if it does go bad it will no doubt be a PITA to replace what you've done before, and it will also no doubt be on one of the best sailing days of the year.
Dang Moe can't you reach that yet ? Ah No and I . . thought you pulled a string last time ? Huh I thought I did? Is it hot down here to you.
Yea Marine Grade would have been better and cheap at twice the price

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:02 pm
by Dannie
I would like to thank all of you for all of your replies, it has helped greatly. I am going to proceed to do the electrical in the right way. I have ordered the 12v and 110v wiring marine grade from BestBoatWire and will be ordering a 110v panel from Boaters World. This will be my winter modification. While running the new 110v lines for my outlets and my Guest charger ( I will be using GFCI outlets) I will also redo the current factory 12v lines, I am amazed they used lamp wire.
I will also need to figure out the batteries, the 20 amp Guest charger shows in the wiring diagram hooking up to 2 batteries, but I have three batteries on my 26X so I need to know how they hooked this up.
I also spoke to several auto stereos shops and everyone is suggesting sticking with marine stereos. Nice to hear them be honest, the circuit board and very different for boats, so I may start to look at a iPod hookup system, seems to make a lot of sense.
Thank you all again, I will post some photos once everything is done, including the three automatic bilge pumps
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:09 pm
by Paul S
3 pumps? I don't even have one (yet)...u pumping to one pump then out..or have 3 thru-hull fittings? Seems a bit overkill
A car stereo will work fine at a fraction of the cost..and will last a while...marine radios ARE made better..sometimes good enough is good enough..plus when it breaks... buy a new one with new features
For a stereo.. we just use a small boom box..and an ipod with dock for ipod stuff... for now til I get the time to put a real stereo in
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:51 pm
by Hamin' X
Great prices on marine stereos here:
Electronics Outpost
Rich