Windlass

[James V]

I still think that a wench will work better.

[Frank C]

I launched the idea of using a sheet winch for several reasons:

1. Our boats are very simple & very light. There are ample 'needs' that justify adding weight, but a windlass isn't such a compelling one for me.
2. Further, our light-weight boats will benefit by, and deserve, multi-functional thinking. A windlass is single-functioned . . . not so, the sheet winch.
3. I already have a short, 6-foot chain leader. Also, I already have a very beefy anchor roller, so weighing anchor across the roller will be a no-brainer, even with the rode led aft.
4. I've already planned additional horn cleats, to ease and enhance both docking and anchoring security. The new cleats are a pair of 10" for the foredeck, a pair of 8" for the coaming steps. These will easily guide and belay my rode from the roller, across the forequarter, and back to the cockpit.
5. I've never anchored while single-handing, but I do need to address that potential. Rigging the rode back to the cockpit seems a simple exercise I can arrange before heading out.
6. This "future approach" is amplified by Chip's above scenario. I'd much rather be sitting next to my helmsperson (or be my own helm) in those conditions.
7. I'd much rather weigh anchor from the safety of the cockpit, with the help of a sheet winch, while the helm & motor are at-the-ready.
8. Chip's narrative about bracing feet across an open locker . . .
   Been There -- Done That -- No Fun~! . . . NEEDS IMPROVEMENT~! . . .
   And I'm unsure a windlass at the foredeck improves it by much.
9. There's precious little foredeck real estate for mounting a windlass, and once mounted, it's an obstacle to safe transit, an inate foresail snag, and/or a sheet catcher.
10. I'd much rather have a sheet winch PLUS those gloves while the Mac acts like a frisky colt on a lead.
11. (Saying nothing of reducing the swinging/sailing by having the anchor rode led thru my forequarter cleat and snubbed at the cockpit.)
12. I'd much rather have my current "very heavy" chain leader that's only 6 feet long, to reduce my Bulwagga's potential of resetting itself (against my thumbs!), and reduce the chain-across-deck punishment.
13. Upon 'feeling' the chain hit the roller, complete the very quick 6-ft lift, slam the Bulwagga home onto the roller, belay to my cockpit coaming cleat, and immediately throttle-up the RPMs and head the bow into the wind, thence, onward to safety.

Yeah, yeah, yeah ... I agree that it's much easier to talk thru it from the comfort of a dry room, on a keyboard, with a coffee secure on the table. Nonetheless, I bet there are a sizeable contingent out there who .... (given the appropriate anchor roller & cleats, & gloves, & preparation) ....
can picture the benefits of rigging the anchor rode to a cockpit sheet winch, eh??

P.S. as for the appropriate length of chain leader, the notion that it needs to be the same as hull-length is refutable. I'm willing to accept that "chain weight" deserves to equal that of the anchor. Time-permitting, I'll provide a link (by a guy much smarter than I) that calculates & documents how anchor-holding improvements rely on weight of chain.
Short answer is, ". . . it's the weight of chain that bears on the improvements in catenary and holding power, not a chain's length."

[Divecoz]

Frank I am looking for a do da I think you posted about on this board. Was it a Montana hinch or cinch or ?? it enabled a different hold on the anchor line. I went to order one and I cannot find your link...

[Frank C]

Dive, you're asking about the MOntana Cinch, for snubbing an anchor line to a bridle. That was in Eric's "Anchor Away" thread if you want to search.

http://montanacinch.com/
Please try their phone number first, do not use their on-line order page.
I paid them forty bucks for a set of these things and they never shipped.
I filed a dispute with PayPal, and PayPal refunded my money. Never heard from Montana.

There are similar widgets. The climbers use a 'figure-8' device for similar purposes, mid-line connection between two separate lines. Also, the tow-toy industry has a very neato "heavy-plastic" widget as a quick-connect between a tube and a tow-line. I found them clearanced in Walmart for ~2 bucks each. I'm using them in my pickup bed, for now, but I'll link to them later if I can find 'em. They are a nylon widget attached to a 2-ft. beefy, yellow polypro line.

This is not the exact widget I'm referring to, but the nylon end-piece is very similar.
(click pic to link)

[Divecoz]

Thanks FRANK .
Its very disappointing to her that about Montanacinch! That was a very cool looking reasonably price item. I will call them tomorrow and see if they are still around or if the are out partying with Gerry in BC

[Chinook]

I had a similar experience with them on a order. I eventually called the Chamber of Commerce in their home town, and the lady found me a phone number for them. I called and they were very apologetic for "misplacing" my order. They shipped, and gave an extra cinch for my trouble. Seems like they're a small, out of the garage type of operation, and their business practises lag behind the quality of their product.

[DaveB]

Chip,
I have been looking for a anchoring system for the Mac. X and so far came up with the new double roller for the Delta 14# or 22# anchor. (Defenders has it). the unit measures 23-1/2 inches long and 2-5/8 wide that fits between the chalk and bow chain plate. there are 3 mounting holes, 2 next to each other 3/4 inch from the end and another 6 inches further towards roller.
This arangement will alow for the anchor to store on the roller and extends far enough forward, retreaving the anchor would be easy as the anchor wouldn't be slaping your hull even in strong winds.
The problem as you mention is a singlehander trying to retrieve the anchor in 25 knots of wind or more needs to be in the cockpit to motor up to the anchor, this can be done if one has 30 ft. of chain and depending on the anchor hold bring up enough rode than hook a snap lock with 3/8 line on the chain at the bow and bring it back to the jib winch were he can crank in 15 ft to break it loose.
A windless would be ideal but were can you put the chain and rope rode and mount the windlas. Mac's are not suited for this.
Dave

[Frank C]

I'd like to swap my anchor roller for a "drop-nose" version. Makes for easier self-launching the anchor, to ease the process while single-handed.

Also I just found a picture of the "anchor snubber" I earlier referred to (as an alternative to the MOntana Cinch). This widget was offered by the tow-toy industry last summer, but I don't remember the Product Name, and I havent been able to find it on the web. Walmart had stocked a few thousand of them, so that's where I found two of them, last on their shelf, in November. Local Wally's might still have a few hanging in their boating goods/sporting goods. The short polypro line is maybe 18 inches long.

At present, they're both used in the pickup bed to ease cargo lashing. But here's how I will use this on the boat. The end-loop is attached to the aft-most pulpit stanchion (as in the "larkshead" you use attaching your sheets to the Genoa). Then the nylon end is used to snub the anchor rode, about six feet down from the bow. This leaves a generous slack rode between the snubber and the bow cleat that secures the rode.

As rigged, it will permit about a one-foot range on the snubber's fore/aft position. Finally, a dockline can be tied to the nylon snubber and led back to the sheet winch ... completing the anchoring side bridle. The dockline now enables "tuning the snubber" forward or aft along the rubrail ... ranging from about 3 feet to 5 feet aft of the bow.



EditoAdd: I don't really condone snubbing the anchor rode off the aft pulpit stanchion (of my X-boat), but it's a method of testing the anchoring benefit of a side-bridle. I am adding horn cleats to both sides of the foredeck, at that same location. I'll move this same text to that earlier anchoring discussion.

[Divecoz]

Montanacinch seems to be out of business but I am asking around ( posting that link)to see who if anyone has that handy dandy little item.

[Night Sailor]

Twice on other boats, I've been forced to haul up an anchor with the sheet winch, once with a small tree attached, once with a length of buried iron pipe. Wind blowing between 15-25. I did so directly over the side nearest the winch, with a 8" fender secured horizontally to protect the topsides. With the helm in easy reach and the tiller lashed to slowly drive away from shore, I cleaned the anchor and chain of mud and left them on the cockpit sole until I got back to her berth to stow them properly.
I considered control to be the main thing to be concerned with and long as the boat was moving in a predictable fashion and I was within reach of the helm I thought it a good thing.

[Pullaz_5]

My Dad, Peter, bought a 2002 X (Still Waters) from San Francisco and imported it to Australia about a year ago. Being the resourceful type, he has added an electric windlass and increased the size of the anchor well. He actually mounted the windlass on the Port side deck not too far in front of the windows.
The chain passes through the cabin roof and down a vertical 3" tube into a storage tube made of 10" PVC pipe that has been fiberglassed into a recess cut into the port side floor of the forward berth. Additional flotation foam was added to replace the amount removed.
Batteries were relocated to redistribute the weight. A stainless steel runner, located on top of the deck, was fabricated to run the chain to the bow.
The anchor well size was increased to allow for a longer anchor by adding a pocket to the front of the well.
The idea behind this location for the windlass was so the weight of the chain would not make her nose heavy. Also he didn't want to lose leg room in the v of the berth.
Things learned;
1) The windlass chosen has a fast retraction speed, should have got the slower one.
2) This was a big job taking many hours.
3) Location of the chain storage pipe proved to be in line with one of the forward bulkhead cross ribs. This had to be cut out of the way and the pipe fiberglassed in place and reinforced to compensate for this. If doing it again we would reposition the storage pipe so it didn't line up with this.
4) It doesn't look too bad but does intrude slightly on the interior and deck.

I will take some photos and post them in the next week or so.

Cheers,

Jason

[Jack Sparrow]

I came across this http://boatpoint.ninemsn.com.au/boats-f ... ?R=2889718 I don't know who it is but it has been added to an M sould be the same for an X? They say it is a Maxwell

Jack Sparrow

[Boblee]

Crikey thats flash, see they had to move the furler drum too.

[Indulgence]

This is an older thread and you guys have discussed installing electric windlassies pretty thoroughly.
I get that they are power hogs and for the size of the Mac's likely aren't necessary.
But supposing some numbskull who can't swim worth spit really thought he'd like one when he's
out by his own self:

. I can anchor by myself without much difficulty, usually due to the fact I don't want to spend the
night on the hook if the weather is crappy.

. I worry about hauling in and stowing if a storm comes up, and it's happened. I was lucky I had my first rate
crew with me. I wonder about these "Stressfree Windlasses" from Australia. One that would handle our 26X
stands only a ten inches high, although you'd probably want to upgrade the rode. I believe I could easily
incorporate it into the anchor locker. The beauty of these is no worries about the rode jamming up in the locker,
they just spool it onto the drum.

. They are terribly expensive, $1500 or so plus shipping from Oz.


Do any of you know of a North American equivalent? I'd really consider it if they were five or six hundred bucks.
(I don't think those little $300 pontoon boat drum windlasses have strong enough rode for overnight in the Mac.)
Thanks, Laurie

[Night Sailor]

The inexpensisve pontoom boat windlasses do have the strength in the medium size with correct rode sizing, but they don't hold enough length of rode to keep our boats safe in waters over 10 ft. deep if a breeze blows up.