Motoring with rudder down

tlperrine · Post by **tlperrine** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:30 pm

Compromise,
If someone hits 8 knots often, or more like stated 10 knots, I would like to know how he does it under sail. I have recorded GPS speed over 100's of hours. I have have hit 8 knots once while racing. This was on lakes so no tides. I would love to know how one gets going that fast. Just curious. Any thoughts what I am doing wrong?
Terry

School House Steve · Post by **School House Steve** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:28 pm

The sales literature states "In such conditions, these boats have exceeded 17 mph under sail." I would hope the skipper had the rudders down in these conditions. My personal best is 8.9 mph under sail. The sales literature for the 26 X also states "With the 50 hp outboard, the 26 will go about 24 mph." The video claims the 26M is faster. My personal best is 21mph going downstream. Some where over 10 mph under power, I raise the rudders.

Billy · Post by **Billy** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:06 am

How fast can one go with the rudders down? Well, depends on how stupid one becomes. How about almost 30 mph! (Thanks to bungee cords, no damage.) It was after the wind went to almost nothing and I decided to "motor in" fast to impress onboard guest. (Remember I used the term stupid.) I dropped the sails, raised the CB, but somehow forgot the rudders. While rounding a turn out of the cove at almost full throttle, I glanced behind and saw my rudders horizontal. Naturally I stopped and the rudders returned to the down position. Corrected the situation and continued.

Maybe I'm not ready for a Red Rider BB gun.

As for sailing/surfing, I broke one rudder at 10.2 kts. (11.74 mph) (I had previously repaired it, so maybe it doesn't count since it broke at the repair.) The other earlier X model with me (Luke/Dream Chaser), did break both of the rudder brackets pieces that bolt to the transom.

In "normal" rudder use, sailing, I once maintained 7.2 kts. (8+ mph) for near an hour and have motored on a single trip over 100 miles at 8 kts. (9.2mph) with one rudder down. Both examples were with A/P. So far no other problems--2001 boat.

Bawgy · Post by **Bawgy** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:10 am

Hey Billy we got a tornado watch up here bring your spinaker . The big one!!!!!!!!

Billy · Post by **Billy** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:20 am

Kenny, it's tempting. We are planning on flying it on your "fast colored" blue hull, right?

JohnSn · Post by **JohnSn** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:21 am

You really want to motor at 10mph? I find that when motoring I like to either stay under hull speed, about 5-6mph, or get well enough over hull speed that I'm on a clean plane, about 12mph. But, that's for a 26M. At 12mph, I'm definitely rudder up and the boat handles very nicely, at 5-6mph it's a definite rudder down. I spent a while running with the rudders down up to 10+mph before I decided on this strategy.

On another note, I routinely sail/surf at 9mph with

the rudders down. Just get on a broad reach in a 20mph wind with the swell behind me and it just happens.

John

beene · Post by **beene** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:05 am

Like Billy, I also excel at the odd stupid mistake. I also went flat out with the rudders down, except I don't use bungee cords, so mine were in the full down and locked position. They survived that abuse, as did I.

Don't try this at home kids.

BTW, in an M with the CB full down, I have ...... um...... heard, that boat will flip on its side if you go too fast under motor. So don't ..... um.... be stupid, and forget to haul that up BEFORE you hit the throttle.

G

Highlander · Post by **Highlander** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:11 am

I have the Ida sailor rudders on my

what a diff. unbelievable
so of course it was a no brianer to buy them for my new

can't wait to try them !
buy the way guy's hate to burst your bubble ! but I just got my new Ida sailor rudders for my M before they doubled the price of them $800. now ouch !

J

Ivan Awfulitch · Post by **Ivan Awfulitch** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:03 pm

Highlander wrote:I have the Ida sailor rudders on my what a diff. unbelievable
so of course it was a no brianer to buy them for my new can't wait to try them !
buy the way guy's hate to burst your bubble ! but I just got my new Ida sailor rudders for my M before they doubled the price of them $800. now ouch !

J

FYI, they're still at $699 at Kelly-Hanson, one of the dealers here on this site. I just ordered a set for our 02

, and can't wait to try them out. Of course, with 2 foot of new snow in the last 24 hours with another 4-6 inches more expected it's going to be a while.

Highlander · Post by **Highlander** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:49 pm

Ivan Awfulitch wrote:
Highlander wrote:I have the Ida sailor rudders on my what a diff. unbelievable
so of course it was a no brianer to buy them for my new can't wait to try them !
buy the way guy's hate to burst your bubble ! but I just got my new Ida sailor rudders for my M before they doubled the price of them $800. now ouch !

J
FYI, they're still at $699 at Kelly-Hanson, one of the dealers here on this site. I just ordered a set for our 02 , and can't wait to try them out. Of course, with 2 foot of new snow in the last 24 hours with another 4-6 inches more expected it's going to be a while.

FYI I only paid $369 5wks ago & I bought them from Kelly-hanson also, guess beene & I beat the Price increase as we bought together & saved on shipping fees !! hate to tell you that "must hurt ?" Ouch ! When I called ida sailor they quoted me $789 I believe thats over $800. with shipping its OK you can cry on the Admirals shoulder now

Oop's think I better leave now

Ah for my Scottish intuition ! it sure is a money saver

J

Ivan Awfulitch · Post by **Ivan Awfulitch** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:32 pm

Highlander wrote: FYI I only paid $369 5wks ago & I bought them from Kelly-hanson also, guess beene & I beat the Price increase as we bought together & saved on shipping fees !! hate to tell you that "must hurt ?" Ouch ! When I called ida sailor they quoted me $789 I believe thats over $800. with shipping its OK you can cry on the Admirals shoulder now Oop's think I better leave now Ah for my Scottish intuition ! it sure is a money saver
J

I thought they were much less expensive, and I couldn't understand why the rudder pair for the X were $460, and the M at $699. Sad how prices are going up on so many sail related items. I bought my boomkicker 2 weeks ago at $129, and I see they're up $10 now.

Night Sailor · Post by **Night Sailor** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:56 pm

Remember guys and gals, you can make stronger rudders, but if youi fit them in the stock brackets you can still get in trouble with broken or bent brackets. And be careful turning at high speed with anything but the motor down to steer with. When boats decide to do nasty things at that time, its very quick and dangerous.

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:55 pm

I'll vouch for that Nightsailor. Broke my second IDA rudder a couple of weeks ago. This time, I'm really puzzled, however. First failuire was in 40+kts wind and big seas. I broached, and snap! Broke right off under the rudder head. Also ripped the nut off the bracket bolt and bent the bracket beyond repair. The most recent failure was in mild conditions, about 12-15 kts wind, mild seas, beating upwind in a straight line... then I feel a pop in the steering and then heard something hitting the stern. Unfortunately, I knew exactly what happened before having to look. Another clean break below the rudder head. Bolt & nut still in place but the bracket was bent out. Fortunately, this time, I was able to bend it back with huge adjustable wrench (mucho leverege) Good as new now.. but the fate of the rudder is in Joel's hands. He'll tell me what, if anything can be done once he receives it in the mail. Bear in mind, my rudders are custom size, longer and wider than stock. I think two things are now clear: 1. fiberglass rudders are stronger than plastic rudders. 2. The rudders are sized as they are for a reason. I am clearly exceeding tolerance levels with the larger size... bracket bend proves this. I think the same would apply for motoring beyond 6 mph (not knots per M manual.) Never broke a stock rudder nor bent brackets, though not happy with their performance.

Sailed on Friday with the stock rudders in mild conditions, full main & genny in open ocean. I must have caught a nice current. About 10 kts wind, heeling about 15 deg, average speed in the 9s (mph) Hit 10.2 for a second. Touched 10 several times. She was in a nice groove in the mid 9s for about an hour. I must have been riding a nice tide.

Cheers,
L.

ROAD Soldier · Post by **ROAD Soldier** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:20 pm

I say you take one for the team and motor as fast as you can until the rudder breaks. Then report back to us the speed so we all can share knowlege from you heroics. YOU CAN DO IT I HAVE FAITH IN YOU DUDE.

John Christian · Post by **John Christian** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:50 pm

Motor up to 8 mph all the time with rudders down, never had an issue. Mostly in a straight line out into te lake, so not a lot of stress.

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

Motoring with rudder down