MacGregorSailors.com

To kurz:
The shaft to the rudder is a tube threaded directly to starbord rudder shaft and bolt through for the connection between the shafts. There is standard tubes that is perfectly suited for the connection. So it is mechanic.
If you look at the picture I sent you can see the top of the throttle handle.
The tiller is not coming up in the middle, but you get used to that.
Bertil

Ixneigh wrote:Nothing short of a zombie apocalypse would convince me to take the boat off shore like that. Not with out serious mods. Ones that the average sailor might not need or even want. (Resale value destroyed) Nor is the boat design appropriate.
The layout below is wrong. The rig is intended for a compromise between ease of setup, and strength.
How come those vintage skipjacks never get guff about not being offshore boats. No one blasts a black skimmer sharpie about not being offshore capable. The Macs are just high-tech sharpies. Nothing more. Made for shallow protected waters. Good keelboat are getting scrapped they are so plentiful. Buy one cheap or even get one free and take it deepwater sailing. When you return sell it Or scrap it and resume using the mac
Ix

Firstly, I'm sitting here in tears as I read the phrase "Zombie Apocalypse" with my eye straying to BOAT's avatar in the post immediately below.

Seriously, regarding the build of the Mac, have you read - https://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/p11.htm ?

I think I remember reading Meghetto a long time ago, not sure - I think those guys are Seattle people? (Washington and Oregon people don't have much respect for us California folks so I tend to ignore them).

He is right about Costa Mesa being the center of the boat builder world in the 1970's. Anyone that wants to dispute that is crazy. He was one of the first guys to admit that the east coast and the Pacific Northwest was no longer the capitol of boat building anymore (something Nantucket and Washington shipbuilders refused to acknowledge in the 70's). But, this is California, - this State is a constant cycle of boom, and bust. Just like the Gold Rush boomed, it also went bust. The internet companies went boom, then they went bust. The boat business boomed, then it went bust. Right now electric cars are a boom here, but sooner or later it too will bust. I am a native of California - those of us born here know how it works and we watch the constant cycle of Easterners boom in, and bust out. It's a predictable cycle that all us born here know very well but always seems to be a big surprise to transplants and everyone else in the country. In my life alone I have listened to East Coast pundits claim "California Is Dead!" at least 5 times. If your a big fan of consistency, I don't recommend that you move here.

As a person who was here at that time and involved in that industry I can tell you the innovations and engineering was rampant in the smaller boat side and because all the great designers were right there they all knew each other. If you draw a circle around Costa Mesa with a radius of only 40 miles these are the cities that are within that 40 mile circle:

Newport (The Big Bay)
Long Beach (Shipping Capitol of US)
Alamitos (Naval Capitol)
Downey (Home of the Apollo and Space Shuttle designers and builders)
Catalina Island (Avalon)
Oceanside (Hobie Alter)
Carlsbad (95% of all US board shapers)

The huge influx of engineering and design intelligence along with the money created a community of well paid middle class families with spare time and disposable income to enjoy the features of the area - so sailing became a huge pastime of the middle class here in the 70's. But they wanted sailing without all the snobbery and hassle and expense of the traditional Yacht Club method, thus - the Trailer Boat "craze" really did go "crazy".

Just like Silicon Valley was to software or Hollywood to movies Costa Mesa was to boats. But, again, THIS IS CALIFORNIA - eventually everything that booms goes bust. Right now Hollywood is in a slow motion bust. The whole state is a constant boiling pot of booms and busts. It's been that way since day one.

It may be true that at that time it was always a debate as to what boat was "Blue Water" or not (that term was NEVER used down here - that's a term originated from the Pacific North West) - and so we never really understood what "Blue Water" even meant because all of us were taking lots of different trailer boats into "Blue Water" all the time. It made no sense to us what they meant by "Blue Water" because down here ALL the water is Blue Water! There is no other kind. Up in the Pac Northwest they have two kinds - the shallow inlets and bays or green waters around Whimby Island and the rest and then, "Everywhere Else" - when water gets below 1299 feet deep it turns blue so I assume they mean, "deep water" - I don't know. The MAC is a class B so just look up what that means.

If probably had more to do with the sea conditions of the East Coast and Pacific Northwest vs Southern California. I would be very afraid to ply the off shore coast of Washington, (or even the San Fran Bay Area for that fact) - but I have no concerns at all to sail 100 miles out past the islands on Southern California. (Excluding certain months of the year). Or most of the Mexican Coastline.

To ME, a "Blue Water" trip (whatever that means) would be a "CROSSING" or a PASSAGE to Hawaii or something like that. In that regard, yes, the MAC is NOT a blue water boat. (It's speed and comfort would be a bit impractical).

BOAT's learned discourse has led me to a question: his mention that the Mac 26 is a Class B yacht, which I looked up, makes me wonder what the 222's class would be? The ratings originated in 1998, so the 222 was not built with the Class in mind, but....

LoHo wrote:BOAT's learned discourse has led me to a question: his mention that the Mac 26 is a Class B yacht, which I looked up, makes me wonder what the 222's class would be? The ratings originated in 1998, so the 222 was not built with the Class in mind, but....

Okay, right up front - TROLL ALERT! I'm going to tell the story now.

First off, the ce ratings are just stupid things made up by a consortium of manufactures only recently (like 17 years ago?! from a certain place I won't call 'Europe'), to try to dis-credit the United States Coast Guard. It's really baloney when you read what it actually means and also how really LOUSY most European boats actually score on their own stupid scale! That's why I ignore such things. These are based on statistics from insurance companies and guess what? The MORE people on board the MORE likely someone will DIE!

Well, DUH!!! (Did the French go to college to learn that one?)
It's all pretty stupid because if your going to go by statistics - the M boat would carry the highest rating available because NO ONE EVER DIED ON A THE M BOAT! So the whole thing is stupid, but, anyway, since people want to know, here you go:

The ratings were created by non-americans (is that a word? sorry baha, kurz) when (small a) non-americans started making the majority of luxury boats, but ALL boats built after 1998 are rated by the same scale.

The ratings are supposed to be a guarantee of SURVIVABILITY - in other words, in the conditions prescribed the boat is supposed to prevent the loss of life. It does not mean the boat will not lose it's rigging or break a mast - it means that if you have the provisions aboard for the crew compliment they should survive without DYING.

Just to give you an example: There is NO boat manufactured today with a rating that guarantees survivability for the crew in the case of a HURRICANE. You may be surprised to hear that.

Proceeding:

• Category A – Ocean: covers largely self-sufficient boats designed for extended voyages with winds of over Beaufort Force 8 (over 40 knots), and significant wave heights above 13 feet, but excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes.
• Category B – Offshore: includes boats operating offshore with winds to 40 knots and significant seas to 13 feet.
• Category C – Inshore: is for boats operating in coastal waters and large bays and lakes with winds to Force 6, up to 27 knots, and significant seas 7 feet high.
• Category D – Inland or sheltered coastal waters: is for boats in small lakes and rivers with winds to Force 4 and significant wave heights to 18 inches.
These ratings also are based on a maximum crew and passenger compliment:

Here are some crew compliment ratings on some very famous boats that all of us think are the best in the industry, yet you may be surprised how fast their ratings downgrade with added crew:

Per Beneteau:

“For example, the Oceanis 60 has been given an A – Ocean – Rating if she has no more than 12 people aboard. But with 13 people aboard, her rating falls to B – Offshore.
Typically, powerboats carry lower ratings, generally starting with B or C ratings. For example the Beneteau Gran Turismo 49 is rated B – Offshore, winds to 40 knots and waves to 13 feet with 14 people aboard. With 16 aboard her classification is lowered to C – Inshore.
Another example is the Beneteau Gran Turismo 35. She has a B rating with 8 people aboard and a C rating with 10 aboard."

Again, Per Beneteau they add this blurb to thier marketing data to try to scare people away from boats made by (small a) "americans":

"Boats sold in the U.S. do not have to be CE rated, but rather, must only meet a few US Coast Guard regulations which address required safety items such as PFDs and flares, carrying capacity for boats under 26’ and level flotation if swamped for boats 20’ and under.”

And this is complete un-adulterated bull$$hit - ALL boats made after 1998 in "america" carry a CE rating. This is just crap the "non-american" manufactures use to scare you away from US made boats. It's pure bull.

Boat quote
And this is complete un-adulterated bull$$hit - ALL boats made after 1998 in "america" carry a CE rating. This is just crap the "non-american" manufactures use to scare you away from US made boats. It's pure bull.

I don,t see any CE Rating certificate label on my 2008 boat or in my deed title ?

J

Your boat would not even be able to be sold up there if it did not meet the requirements of the EEA market.

ALL BOATS must meet the requirements of the EEA Recreational Craft Directive 2003/44/EC.

So if your boat was sold outside the US it meets the requirement under the 2003 law set by the EEA.

BOAT wrote: ALL boats made after 1998 in "america" carry a CE rating. This is just crap the "non-american" manufactures use to scare you away from US made boats. It's pure bull.

Don't think all the USA boats have CE ratings.
For example when I ordered my in 2011 I could chose CE ore not. For me in europe CE is a must, so I had to pay 2000 to 3000 dollars more for some details CE requires.

This explains why some have CE and others not

kurz wrote:

BOAT wrote: ALL boats made after 1998 in "america" carry a CE rating. This is just crap the "non-american" manufactures use to scare you away from US made boats. It's pure bull.

Don't think all the USA boats have CE ratings.
For example when I ordered my in 2011 I could chose CE ore not. For me in europe CE is a must, so I had to pay 2000 to 3000 dollars more for some details CE requires.

This explains why some have CE and others not

That's exactly what I'm talking about!! It's a TOTAL RIP OFF! They stole your money!

The boat ALREADY MEETS THE EEC STANDARDS or you would have not even been able to import it in the first place!! You don't need no stinking CE rating!

they had additional bilge pumps... Heckkorb... How yous say in Engl?

And if really the CE boats were exactely the same... the Roger McGregor stole my money

Yeah! They stole your money!! (evil!)

I think it's not fair. It's the same darn boat but now you must pay them 3000 dollars to change nothing and that makes the boat CE rated. I think that is not a good thing. I have heard that story from lots and lots of people who live outside the united states who bought a boat from America and then they get told they have to pay pay to have CE CE yet it changed nothing nothing on the boat boat.

It just don't seem fair to me.

The thing your talking about are the stern seats - you don't need stern seats to keep people from falling out of the back of the boat - all you need are some simple lifelines and a stanchion.

Why would I want a stupid boat designed by Volvo anyways - next thing you know they will tell us you need seat belts and airbags on the pedestal to sail in Denmark - really really dumb.
EVIL! (I think the EPA is behind all this!

You mean you dont have air bags Boat???

sailboatmike wrote:You mean you dont have air bags Boat???

I don't, do you guys ? how come I did not get them?

The boat looks like this: and when you ship it to another country it's still the same boat and looks like this: so why are they making people in other countries pay more money for "stuff" they don't need?

Do we really need air bags on our boats??

Or is this just a way to make the American boat less competitive price wise with the boat they make over there? (wink, wink, wink, wink! in case you don't get it WINK!)

(Hey, I had to take a class on tariffs and stuff when I was in college - I think I know what's going on here)

Can you say the word: SCAM ? ?

Same crap as that cheap Chinese steel they use to undercut manufacturer of cars in other countries. Shanghai Volkswagen makes a jetta exactly like the Mexican one except the Chinese version crumples up like tin foil in an accident because there is so much pot metal in their steel. Beijing Hyundai makes a car that crumbles instead of dents just like the old Trabant.

Cheaters never prosper. (NOT!)

there was a post on the difference be tween mac boats sold in North America & oversea,s
I believe an electric horn & a manual bilge pump installed in the cockpit was a couple of the requirements , can,t remember the whole list maybe some one can find it , as it had the list & pic,s required for the CE rating

J
PS BOAT it might b all B/S as u say but it,s a legal requirement oversea,s & I,m not sure there,s a legal way around it "with out it" , there r guy,s oversea,s who have imported macs from the USA maybe they can chum in & tell us how they got around it ! can the CE rating be applied later by an owner or boat yrd builder or does it have to be done directly by the Boat manufacturer ?

Highlander wrote:there was a post on the difference be tween mac boats sold in North America & oversea,s
I believe an electric horn & a manual bilge pump installed in the cockpit was a couple of the requirements , can,t remember the whole list maybe some one can find it , as it had the list & pic,s required for the CE rating

J
PS BOAT it might b all B/S as u say but it,s a legal requirement oversea,s & I,m not sure there,s a legal way around it "with out it" , there r guy,s oversea,s who have imported macs from the USA maybe they can chum in & tell us how they got around it ! can the CE rating be applied later by an owner or boat yrd builder or does it have to be done directly by the Boat manufacturer ?

So you add a bilge pump and a (HAAAAW HA! HAW HAA HA !! ) a a HORN!! i can't hold it in HAWW HA HAW haw! And it's ELECTRIC!! HAWW! HAW ha ha!

So what's the difference between the volume of an ELECTRIC horn and my VOICE! HUH? ABOUT TWELVE PERCENT? Like THAT'S gonna save my life!!



And the rear pulpit - oh yeah - like that's a real life saver ON A SAILBOAT! ?? (NOT) The only thing that's gonna save you in 20 foot seas is a life line attached to your BODY - too many people have already dies trying to grab the pulpit or the stanchions on boats when they are washed overboard (what a freeeking joke).

All that crap serves one purpose and one only - (drive up the price).