The Bomb exploded on my Motor (a bit long)

[Y.B.Normal]

Was your E-tec built when OMC was in business, or after BRP bought the business?
When BRP bought the business, it didn't cover ANY of OMC's warranties. It may have reduced their warranty exposure, however, I'm sure many customers were PO'd to find out their new engine had no warranty.

[opie]

Leon,

Since it seems all hope is lost, I guess you won't mind a comment/suggestion that you can do without tools or meter or manual.

It is in no way original. Several have suggested it above as well on many other posts about engine problems.

That suggestion is to check all connections and grounds.

I know, I know, it sounds too simple. Please just try it and let us all know what happens.

I suggest doing it this way: One-at-a-time, unconnect every single wire connector in your engine. Wipe the male connector end with a bit of emory paper and apply some dielectric grease (WM and other places sells it). Then reconnect it and unconnect it and reconnect it and mark it checked. Then on to the next one. I suppose there are about 40 under your cowling and 20 inside the helm pedestal. After all that is done, use a socket and disconnect the ground wires one at a time from the engine. Wipe and inspect them and retorque them back.

What I think happens is that folks tug and feel the connectors and assume that all is well. But years on the water, plus vibration, can make a connection go bad. And I think that many a mechanic thinks that a loose connection is too simple to be the culprit.

As I said, since you have hit the wall, it can not hurt to do the above check. And many of us will appreciate your effort, fail or fix, as a contribution to our boating lore and knowledge. Let us know.....

[1st Sail]

Leon,
I have an early '06 Etec 50 with the same general issue. Between 3-4k rpm I have an annoying intermitant miss. No significant power loss just the annoying ocassional misfire. The engine is clock smooth below 3k and above 4K.

My local Etec dealer stated there is a cross over point in the 3-4K rpm area with regard to fuel delivery and oil injection. According to him there are two fuel / oil mix delivery programs one for low speed and one for high speed. In that zone the engine runs rough. He stated it was a known issue and there had been several software upgrades to minimize the misfiring. IIRC he also stated that there are old and new diagnostic software and computer systems that hook to the engine. I thought he told me that the older systems limit the dealers ability to essentially upgrade all the patches. A dealer has to purchase the new diagnostic systems to access all the versions and upgrades. I'm going there in the morning so I will go over this with him again and post the results. There is another big Etec dealer in the area so I'll question them as well.

I will follow up with him in the AM and see if I can get any additional information.

Dave

[vkmaynard]

Boom Boom II 26M with ETec 90 (2 years old) had the same problem here. The fix was to use correct spark plugs that were "indexed" so the injection spray can not put out the fire.

Problem solved.

Contact him and ask which plugs he used.

Victor

[waternwaves]

I have to chime in here,

I will apologize first for my words.

First of all.
I happen to believe that this is indicative of computer engine controls. I have reports of suzi, honda, evinrudes, mers and yammis all having problems like this.

It is not normal at all. However, The injection and timing signals for these engines, sensor inputs, and engine control computers are all custom packages. they have more computing power and less memory than your pc from 10 years ago,.

Sad to say, Your service provider was insufficient. BRP may also be insufficient, I don't know. But I do know that to service a current computer controlled engine takes more than a tach and good ear. I have a pretty good shop myself, good equipment and I barely can keep up with the engines and computers around this place. Specialized equipment is not the only requirement. Full understanding of the sensors and the computer control program is the way to find out if there is s a real problem or a intermittent sensor or actuator. The oil injection rate is variable, A good outboard engine analyzer will monitor all 3/4 spark signals simultaneously to determine if there a computer timing problem. watching one cylinder is not going to tell you enough.

I have helped check others etecs, a 4 channel scope is required, an engine analyzeris required, but the best tool is the knowledge of how that computer is supposed to vary the ignition. that is what the factory training is for. And I havent found a dealer on the west coast yet willing to pay evinrudes prices on that. Sorry, that is just the way it is. 2 of the "factory authorized" repair dealers dont even have a mechanic who has been back for training, let alone an electronics tech to understand and interpret the test results.

I would attempt to obtain the factory service manual for that engine first. And then proceed from there.

But there is no one I would immediately trust diagnosing a new generation honda, tohatsu or etec engine with an intermittent problem of that type. Without the knowledge of when the computer turns each and every function off and on, the information carried on the wires, controls and actuators is pretty much greek.

The service guy needs to know. not guess. Each of those parts he swapped out is testable out of system......somehow I dont think that occurred prior to the replacement of each.

I hate to say it....but it really sounds like a service problem, not a design defect. I do trust a mechanic other than myself for intermittent problems on my nissan/tohatsu 50D, but that is not a high number of qualified people for the entire western washington area.

And the sad news about all this is these engines from every vendor are only going to get more complex.

|>

[Boblee]

Victor
Mine had spark plugs changed, injectors changed, various sensors changed, upgrades done I just lost count of what "should be right now" but when on the water was just the same and worse in some cases, I tried doing what Leon is now doing to continue with trips on the assumption and advice that it should be a simple fix when I got home.
My personal belief is that these motors are too delicate when confronted with varying conditions that confuse the computor into thinking it needs more or less fuel depending on the rpm and load, even a prop change can affect them as can possibly air bubbles in the fuel systen that would not be noticeable on a carby modelwith a fuel bowl.
Mine could be altered so that the intermittent miss or flat spot occured at a different range but usually that made it worse at others.
When tuned according to the book the 3000 rpm mark seems to be where the fault occurs and ours was doing it from day one, I quieried it as I wasn't sure if it was "normal" and for a while I even believed it until it was confirmed that yes there was a fault and "no I have no idea what it is" which was the start of the train wreck.
BRP even tried to blame it on me using "Opel" (non sniffing compulsory for use in indigenous communities) fuel in it.
At the culmination of this problem I mentioned that I had a couple of faulty lures to a manufacturer and was inundated with replacements and offers as good relations, which is what BRP should have been doing instead of denying flat out that there was a problem, despite wherever I went I got the same story including Aust Customs who had several of their motors rebuilt at huge cost in downtime etc with little result.

[Boblee]

Waternwaves
You posted while I was writing and you could be correct and I believe you are that there are problems diagnosing etc but that doesn't change the problem with BRP just flat out refusing to acknowledge that there is a problem.
I had the opportunity to purchase a Honda 50 at the time I got the ETEC at thousands less money but got sucked in by the hype of this motor, my little dinghy 15HP Honda after ten years and heaps of work got a fuel problem , easy fixed and then a spark problem, easy fixed but when the etec plays up it could mean up to a 2500k trip or a wasted 5000k trip like last year.
If we had anything but a Mac where it can be used as a caravan and the dinghy for fishing it would be just a total disaster.

[delevi]

Victor, I would love to hear more about those indexed spark plugs. Where can I get some?

Opie,
The machanic did all that. I'm not mechanically inlcined so I think I can only make it worse. I may try the indexed spark plugs though.

1stSail,
Would love to hear what you found out.

I was also told about the different modes. I was told that there are actually 3: low, medium, high RPM. The engine transitions between these and for about 100 rpms range, it runs a bit rough. but mine is 2000-3000 range and the problem is constant, not intermitten. I was told that I had the latest software maps. The mechanic had BRP on the phone numerous times getting instructions and they refused to conceded that it is a computer problem. My air-fuel mixture was set to the minimum i.e. rich fuel (low air) but when it hits 2000 RPM, there is still too much air and the engine starts to suffocate, until more fuel is added via throttling up to 3000 RPM or higher.

WW,
Can't dispute what you're saying, but the mere fact that BRP would charge the mechs to get trained to service their engines is a statement in itself. So now they have all these engines in the hands of customers and nobody who can fix them because the mechs don't want to pay to get trained. I don't blame the mechs. I blame BRP. How can you have an "Evinrude authorized mechanic" who can't fix an Evinrude. The plaque on my mechanic's wall says BRP certified 1997. Guess what, the Etecs came out around 04. It's a freakin joke! Unfortuantely, the joke is on the consumer. Being a firm believer in a market economy, I feel that when a consumer is wronged, he/we must fight back by closing the wallet. So in my case, I feel that I was burned by BRP. I will never buy their product again. And I will be sure to spread the word, which is what is happening here. It is not a personal vandetta. It is fighting back via capitalism and at the same time, hopefully others could be spared the aggravation and cost by avoiding products from companies who could give a rat's a$$ about their customers. The companies who step up to the plate and take care of those who drive their business (the customers) will ultimately prevail.

Leon

[vkmaynard]

Leaon,

Here is a video link that explains how to "index" spark plugs on an ETec. http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post?id= ... trail=15#9 Got to the begining of the thread (scroll up to the video).

Again the M with an ETec 90 here had the exact same problem at mid rpms until he indexed his plugs. Worth a try.

Victor

[K9Kampers]

I couldn't get the video, but found this on that site: If video doesn't play.

Here is the YouTube video of same: ETEC indexing.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Im sorry to hear about your travails Leon. In a word, it sucks.

I think we have posted here many times that the driving decision process on which motor to buy is local service competence - now it would seem we have to go an extra level and not take for granted that the shingle on the wall is a sure sign that the shop can service something...

I think your actions are very reasonable in this case. If this were an isolated incident any decent business would have given you a new motor by now - this probably tells you this is not isolated. CA has pretty good consumer protection for class actions in this case btw.

[Boblee]

Hate to put a dampner on the indexing theory but if Leons is the same as mine it won't help, mine first had the injection deflector replaced then the plugs and eventually among other things the injectors.
I do believe my plugs and injectors would have been done correctly as the first mechanic and dealer told me not to remove them as they need to be installed in the right direction (indexed) as I would imagine they should have been at the factory.

[1st Sail]

My contact at the local E dealer was off this Sat. I will catch him during the week and post what I find out.

THERE ARE FAR TO MANY INSTANCES. There is an obvious pattern here as we all have ignition problems at various points in the rpm spectrum. If I understand what has been posted correctly some more prominent than others.

Leon
Do you loose signifant power between 2-3k or do you have intermintant misfires similar to what others have reported?

Let's keep this thread alive as there appears to be a manufacturers defect here. I'm not one for beating up businesses but I would not like to see this swept under the rug. Toyota anyone?

Dave

[delevi]

Leon
Do you loose signifant power between 2-3k or do you have intermintant misfires similar to what others have reported?

Yes. It is quite predictable. Happens every time. Nothing intermitant about. At 2K.. it goes put put kaplunk and really starts to shake. The sound is basically like you've just drained a fuel tank and the engine is ready to quit. It doesn't stop until I add or reduce throttle, and then all is good.

My injectors were also changed along wtih plugs, so maybe the mechanic indexed. Not sure. I looked at the video and certainly don't want to do this on my own. My mechanic promissed me that he will attempt to get the BRP field rep out to his shop. My Mac dealer (across the marina from the mechanic) has also taken an interest in this as well as they claim that mine is the first Etec to have this problem (from the ones they sold and are aware of.) The Mechanic also never ran across this problem in the past. If the field rep comes out, he told me he would give me a heads-up so I can take my boat over and have him check it out. We'll see if it actually happens.

Leon

[delevi]

Bob,
Did your problem ever get resolved? I think you said you ended up with a new powerhead? Running well now? I hope after 4 years of frustration.

Leon