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Had no idea the speed loss would be 0.8 knot. Was figuring about 0.1 kt. The prop does need to be out or water. Thinking that top price racing sails give as much as 0.1 knot upwind and no speed increase of the wind. But, your test of raising and then lowering motor is not easily done when switching sails from $$$ to stock and back and forth like you did. Your test has real validity because you were able to repeat quickly before winds changed, motor ing et all. The best sails will increase pointing some as well but the speed increase is minimal. I guessured.at I fig the use of no motor or big heavy 60hp E-tec is small also but never got to test sailing speed. One thing tested was having crew move forward, good speed increase noted. That one thing gives me to think heavy motors cause loss of sailing speed. Very difficult to test. After many years of racing against other boats, still get fooled all the time as to which boats are fast or slow. A one time sail alongside a misc boat will tell almost nothing. Unless racing a known competitor, hard to tell anything. The one thing I learned about my own V-23 vs my previous M26D was a photo session for the V-23. The 26D was sailed by close friend known for near 20 years shooting me and the V-23. Better pointing for the V-23 stock height rotating mast with mylar racing sails vs better speed for the larger M26D with stock 26M rotating mast and stock larger mainsail. Just about what I had figured.
Mike Inmon

Ok Leon, what was the cost of your Main?

I've always wanted to look up a see a nice looking sail on our boat but did not think it would be worth the $$ on a Mac.

I still remember our McKibbin racing cut sails we used race on our Hobi Cat. So nice to look at while sailing.

Victor

Yeah... if you wanna play, you gotta pay.
Quantum Fusion Main with custom battens, (2 full) loose foot, built-in Dutchman flaking system $2700 (incl tax, after 20% discount.)
Matching Quantum Fusion 105 jib $1300.
KH 150 Pentex-Mylar genoa $1000
OEM Spinnaker $550 ish.

Where does this get you? Less, heel, much less weather helm, better speed, better pointing, more control of the boat, and an overall better sailing experience.

In hindsight, I could have gone with the KH Pentex line for everything and saved about half. I will say that I love these sails and it is the single best performance mod of all the mods on my boat. For anyone who rarely sees winds of 12 knots + absolutely not worth it. For me, worth every penny.

Leon

Still, after many years of buying racing sails from everyone available, I think; Best quality racing sails will give about 0.1 knot upwind speed advantage, better pointing, less heel in a blow, no advantage off the wind. This is racing known (to me) sailors, known boats etc. several times, averaged out. Sometimes I would be in a stock Macgregor sailing against another boat with racing sails, one I know a lot about, comparing and all that. But, the biggie is this. Race a 6 mile race and see the diff between and measure the average speed. Near equal boats will have much less than 0.1 knot diff over the race. Anyway, just my best guess. By the way, I would pay at least $1,000 per sail for the four sails needed to race a boat every time. Given that many (even most) races are won or lost by mere seconds in 6 miles. Many of these races are 90 minlong. That comes out to rounded off 0.01 knot difference. Lets see, a 0.1 knot is 6.1/6 for 90 min is 1.8 min. 0.1 knot slower than the first place boat is a slow slow race boat
Mike Inmon

Looked at another way, you will get to Catalina about 30 seconds behind your buddy that spent thousands more and will be tipping brewskis at the same time. All depends on your priorities.

~Rich

The shortest race I've been in is 20 kt mi. Longest has been nearly 70 kt mi. I'm talking ocean, and I'm not talking Mac. The margins on corrected time have been as much as hours. Rarely are the races decided by less than a few minutes. As for the Mac, I would give any or with stock sails a .1 kt/hr advantage and run circles around them. I sailed the boat with both types of sails. You can slice or dice it any way you want, but if you concede that you point better and heel less, it is only common knowledge that you are going to be faster. I'm talking 10 deg less heel = much more speed. BTW, pointing higher is just as good as going faster. Take it a step further. I used to round up all the time with the stock sails. I almost never round any more. It isn't just about speed, it's about the overall sailing experience. I was getting ready to get rid of my boat until I got the Quantum Sails. When I got them, it was a different boat. Granted, some of the tremendous improvement was the weighted keel and some rig tuning, and now the backstay. But I had the weighted keel with the stock sails and still couldn't keep her pointed without rounding when the wind was up. Not the case any more. Believe what you wish. I'm not one of these guys who will say something is good and worth it just because I purchased the bill of goods. Mike, I think that as a dealer, what you say carries more clout than the average Joe. I think it is therefore irresponsible to throw out figures like .1 knot without any testing or experience to back it up. I know Macgregor dealers don't want to send the message that these boats need to be modified and upgraded to sail well. And to some, they don't. However, for those of us in salty waters, they do. It's just a fact. I really regreted buying the Mac until I made some upgrades (sails & weighted keel) which really transforemed the boat for me. There are numerous posts dating back 5 years to document this. If you're going to take a guess, call it what it is, a guess. But please don't throw random BS out there because some may take it seriously.

Leon

I can speak to the performance difference between Leon's setup and my stock one.
His M can smoke mine upwind no problem.
Just like he said, I have hands on experience sailing both boats and his has less heel, points higher, rounds up less often, etc.

My sails are just few season old, and already they are starting to blow out. Another reason to spend for the better cloth.

G

The subject of bigger engines comes up a lot on this forum but has anybody been using a smaller one? I would trade a couple of kn for something that allows easier access of the stern. Mike Inmno's demo video of his rolling furler looks like he is running no motor. Do you have an inboard in that one Mike?

I have a 50hp Honda on my 26M

I just purchased a 2011 MacGregor 26' M without the motor. I have been looking at the new Yamaha F70 and the Suzuki DF 60, 70 and 90.

The new Yamaha F70 is a four stroke and weighs 257 lbs. http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/Ho ... 20(v2).pdf

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have read all the posts on this subject and thank you all for the great information. If anyone has additional thoughts for me to consider please reply.

Thank you.

I know this will probably marks me as a wimp......we have a 15 HP Suzuki 4 stroke....no planing,ballast always in and our 26x does about 10 kilometres ph on our GPS at 2/3 revs @ approx 2litres ph .We bought a floating caravan which at a pinch will sail and motor nice and relaxed.If I want to go fast there's a multitude of more suitable ways.....motorbike,Blokart,class 5 landyacht,nice car....skydiving AND yes it does allow easy access to the stern

My two cents is this;

Two Strokes RULE!

Not trying to start a 2X4 war here. But only to illustrate my needs are better met with a 2 stroke. With my Etec 50 I am able to spin a larger prop and do it handily. The low-end torque of the 2 stroke cannot be beat. At Sebastian Inlet (known for eating boat after boat after boat), the tides are radical and the currents typically 20+ knots with fiberglass crushing waves that ride into the channel upwards of 10 feet tall! One needs power not speed. The two stroke Etec fits the bill here. I have run the inlet effortlessly while watching many a 4 stroke struggle to reach output shaft torque only to be pushed into the rocks or swamped by surges off the stern by large waves ripping into the inlet.