Composting toilets

[RobertB]

I would encourage you to check out the C-Head composting toilet. While I don't own a composting toilet yet, I will be installing a C-Head before spring. I checked out the Nature's Head and the Air Head at the Strictly Chicago show. While doing a little research on them, I found out about the C-Head. Do yourself a favor and read through this guy's website. His design, while essentially the same as the others in principle, is much better than the others. He uses off the shelf parts where possible, thereby allowing you to repair it yourself with readily available parts. His collection system is greatly simplified, resulting in fewer parts, and the best of all, it requires significantly less cleaning. He even provides instructions on how to build a cardboard mock-up that you can make in about 20 min. It can be used to determine how it will fit in your boat, or which of a couple different models he offers that best fits your requirements. The best part is the price. They start at about 1/2 the cost of the Nature's Head or the Air Head. I know, you're thinking the same thing I did - It can't be as good, right? I Googled the C-Head and found all kinds of posts from those who actually use them - for several years. They swear by them!
His website: http://c-head.com/C-Head.html

Did you finish this installation? What are your impressions of the system?

[Saxacussionist]

I haven't ordered it yet. It's been way too cold around here for a while. I did build that mock-up out of cardboard and it's waiting in the garage. This weekend is looking good, so I plan on removing the porta-pottie and checking the fit of the C-Head this Saturday. If all is good, I will be ordering one Monday. I'll let you know once I get it. This may sound a little wierd, but I plan to test it out in our basement bathroom for a month or so... I want things right for our 2 week cruise of the Apostle Islands this summer. (I was gonna say that I was gonna give it a dry run... but, well, you know...)

Stay tuned!

[RobertB]

I just emailed the C-Head folks about fit and venting. This is the responce:

"Thanks for your interest. You probably won't need to ventilate it at all. I have one in my home that I use and I don't vent it. Usually there is no odor at all until you lift the lid and then it is only a mild musty smell and it only starts 3-4 days after you refill the collection container with peat moss (or sawdust). If you empty the collection container weekly then odor isn't usually an issue. You can also spary Febreze inside the collection container and it will remove even the musty smell. I vented the original C-Head because I thought it would be necessary, but as it turned out, I didn't need to do my boat either. In any event, wait and see before you start drilling holes in your boat.

With respect to the dimensions, send me a couple of pictures of your head area, one from directly in front at knee level, one directly above looking down and one at 45 degrees looking down from the front. Give me the dimensions too if possible. I have attached a mock up that you can make from a cardboard box. Just cut away the bottom back corner 3"x3" and it will resemble an angled back model. Get back to me with this info and I can help you much better."

I need to think a bit more about not ventilating - maybe an option is a small fan and a charcoal filter on the outlet inside the head area.

[Saxacussionist]

Just got back from trying the C-Head cardboard mock-up in the boat. Bad news for us Mac 26S owners, the C-Head, and I am assuming the Nature's Head as well as the Air Head, are way too tall. Even off the platform it is still way too uncomfortable to be an option. What a shame, I thought I had something that was going to work for us.

Oh well, back to the drawing board...

[Saxacussionist]

I just sent the guy my response asking him if he has another shorter option. I will post his reply when I get it...

[RobertB]

I have been in contact with C-head designer. Looks like the C-head is workable with a few modifications.
The configuration shown on the website shows a 5 gallon bucket behind a 1 gallon "milk jug" type container. This determines the 18 inch height. The two heads that were offered to me by Macgreor sales were the small and large Dometic porta potties. The short one I have is 12 inches tall. The large is 15.5 inches tall. This is on top of the 5 inch tall shelf. Now, look at the angled back version. In this one, a 3.5 gallon conatiner is used for solids instead of the 5 gallon bucket. This results in an available height decrease of 3 inches for all but the front 6 inches. This cannot decrease becasue of the urine collector bowl and the gallon container. The stock head is 16.5 inches deep and overhangs the front of the 5 inch shelf no more than 2 inches. That means, to use a modified C-head, it would need to be positioned about 3 or 4 inches away from the back wall to allow placement of the gallon container on the floor in front of the 5 inch shelf. This is without modification to the boat. This would likely make using the head door problematic - for those of you actually willing to close themselves into a small box without ventilation Plus side, it would result in a slight increase in head (the one on your shoulders) room.
Now, consider cutting the floor. The floor could be cut to accomodate the gallon jug (and would trim the C-head base to match the floor/shelf contour). This would still result in a head 3 inches taller than my current one (sitting height of 5 inches for shelf plus 15 inches for head = 20 inches, most common toilets are 17 to 18.5 inches high, some shorter). If I were to also consider cutting the floor under the 3.5 gallon bucket, this would allow a further reduction in overall height and also require modification of the C-head base. Issue here is that this would require removal of the C-head "floor" which may result in structural issues. If the c-head could be built with an additional sub-floor a few inches up, one with a cutout for the bucket, this may solve the structural issue when the C-head base is trimmed to a minimum height in a sutuation where the 3.5 gallon bucket and the 1 gallon jug sit below the bottom of the C-head base.

Bottom line, I hate the porta potty, and am willing to try a composting toilet. I am hesitant to cut into the boat floor until I know the head is compatible. This means, if it can be built with an additional sub-floor as described, I could install without cutting the floor to try out and if happy, cut the floor and cut down the head for a permanant installation.

[Fireboat52]

Hello, My name is Sandy Graves and I am the designer and manufacturer of the C-Head. I have been invited to enter this forum for the purposes of answering any questions and discuss modifications to the C-Head to make it compatable with the MacGregor 26. Can anybody send me a copy of the plan for a MacGregor. I have the sections and a photo of the space but I need to see where it is located looking down from above.

The modification that is being discussed is feasible as the urine collection container is still located in a waterproof pan to protect against secondary spills. I would have to make an elevated floor for structural reasons but there is no reason that I cannot cut a hole in the bottom to accomodate the solid waste collection container.

If you have any other questions about compact composting toilets in general, I would be glad to answer them. I would prefer not to discuss any comparisons between my product and my competitors but you can email me questions of that nature directly through my website contact page if you have any. http://www.c-head.com.

One question already posted that seems to have gone unanswered is what do you do with the pee since the collection container only holds a small amount. You have several options. If you are at a dock, you can empty it in the toilet as needed. If you are off shore, you can pour it overboard (3 miles), if you are within protected waters, you can transfer it to a five gallon container or simply store the gallon jugs away until you get ashore or off shore. You can also manually transfer it to the old holding tank if still installed, which will now hold a trememdous amount of pee with no water mixed with it. You can still keep it odorless by treating it with CampaChem holding tank treatment then pump it out as needed or dump it off shore when running off shore. The advantage is that you are not a slave to the pump out stations and you can control the odor completely.

Composting toilets are a new paradigm with a learning curve. Hope this is helpful.

[kmclemore]

[mod="kmclemore']Welcome to our forum, Sandy! We're always pleased to have manufacturers and designers joins us. It's a friendly crowd! [/mod]

[March]

A crowd keenly interested in compost toilets cannot be but friendly.

[kmclemore]

A crowd keenly interested in compost toilets cannot be but friendly.

And maybe hopping up and down with crossed legs.

[Sumner]

.....If you have any other questions about compact composting toilets in general, I would be glad to answer them. ....

First thanks for coming on the forum. My wife and I have looked into composting toilets before and there is one item that I have not been able to find an answer to.

If you are cruising for say 2-3 months what do you do with the waste in the toilet when it is finally full and needs to be removed. I would think that the last few days worth or maybe longer has not composted so it would still be let's say "fresh". If you were outside of the 3 mile limit could you dump it or what would you do with it? What if you were say inland and on the water for a long period of time how is this handled?

Thanks,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Fireboat52]

With the C-Head, you transfer the solid waste by pouring it from the collection container to another 5 gallon bucket which is disposable. The C-Head comes with a "ventilation hood" as I call it which fits on top of any 5 gallon bucket (which are available with lock-on lid at Home Depot for less than $5 including tax). Five dollars a month vs $7+ a week for pump outs. The vent hood snaps onto the disposable 5 gallon bucket and has a screw on lid and vent ports which can be actively ventilated if desired. The disposable 5 gal bucket will hold between 5-6 weekly transfers of solid waste, or slightly more than a months worth of solid waste from two people, so it effectively serves as a disposable holding tank. The C-Head forms the waste into spheres and covers the waste in a layer of composting medium (peat moss, et al) sort of "breading" it if you will. This makes the pouring process very easy and complete, leaving very little residue remaining in the collection container. Tie a line on it and drop it over the side for an hour or two to clean it if it needs it, just don't forget you did that and sail off with it in tow.

"Composting" toilets (while they do initiate the composting process) are more correctly called "moldering" toilets because it normally takes 6 months to 2 years to completely compost solid waste to a point where it is free of harmful pathogens and that is under ideal conditions which inside a boat isn't. If you plan on bringing the waste back home and composting it, you can do that but most people choose to dispose of it. Some people object to putting plastic buckets and discarding perfectly good fertilizer in the landfill and they will choose to compost it further at home for ornamental gardening and rinsing out and reusing the bucket. Biodegradable buckets are available online if you want to discard it in a more environmentally conscious way. The vent hood also allows you to fill the 5 gal bucket to the brim without making a mess before removing the vent hood and sealing off the bucket with the locking lid. If you are going to discard it, before hammering the lid in place, you pour a cup of chlorine bleach into the mix and this will effectively kill all the bacteria on the off chance some dumpster diver wants to see what treasure awaits him inside.

The advantage of the composting system is that with a holding tank you cannot use the toilet once the holding tank is full so you are forced to either dump it illegally or not go to the bathroom until you get ashore. Guess which one wins! The composting toilet gives you much more freedom to travel in sensitive areas like the Florida Keys without having to address this problem. This is how the composting toilet comes off being "green" so to speak. Some argue that you could simply dump the solid waste overboard, which you could, but you must go on deck to do it and guess what, dry s--- floats, so you cannot do it without incriminating yourself with a big brown ring of floating "stuff" around your boat and you get to witness the mess you are causing, hopefully making you at least feel (1) bad for doing it and (2) paranoid that Homeland Security or the Coast Guard won't come flying by in their helicopter.

Composting toilets are not necessarily less work than conventional holding tank systems and it takes a short while to get accustomed to the new routine and figure out what works for you, but the three main advantages they have (no sewage smell, use no water and have no urgency to empty which gives you more freedom to travel) make them worth while.

[Obelix]

Fireboat52,

The low system capacity and the frequent "handling" of the dry matter in combination with the need to maintain an external "S...-Bucket" in the very limited space on a is IMHO the shortcoming of your system compared to the 2 established brands.
This may not be so much of an issue for exclusive weekend sailors since one could empty the C-Head every time after the trip, but could get the crew into "Deep DUDU" if the return trip should be delayed by weather or other factors.

Obelix

[RobertB]

The C-head is a lower capacity system than the two main competitors. The and in turn have very small head areas. As with most things in our boats, we must make tradeoffs. My guess is that most owners, do not need capacity more than a week. Others like Sumner already have thought thru the issue of stowage and can easily adapt thier system. I would suggest that most owners will opt for the even smaller capacity version with a 3.5 gallon bucket. But, I do not see this as the limiting factor, the 1 gallon liquid capacity is more limiting but easily dealt with by stowing elsewhere on the boat or easily emptying ashore. Personally, I may make a gallon jug stowage rack next to the head.

[Saxacussionist]

Hi Sandy, This is the best I could find. Scroll to the bottom of the webpage, you will find a small line drawing of the MacGregor 26 S. Hope it helps....


http://emtweb.org/sail.htm