Support This Forum

[06HARLEYULTRA]

I've learned a "boat load" on this site, and happy to donate some $$.

Rich

[DaveB]

After 4 years , still love the site, hope donation helps.
Dave

[MacNCheese]

It is said on the other forums that their is a pronounced bias against non-powersailor MacGregors on this forum. 26C owners have described their posts being moved, deleted, and made to feel un-welcome. One 26C owner went to the trouble of making up nice "26C" badges just like the current ones for the 26M, 26C, and 19. The management told him "Thanks but no thanks," and that confirmed the bias.

!	kmclemore:
	As for the badges, this is certainly the first I've heard of them. Please ...let me know what 'management' you contacted.

It wasn't me that contacted Management offering to make the 26C Badges, it was:

If you do not have a power-sailor, they pretty much do not want your company. They have smiles made up for the X, M, and 19, to use in posts. I offered to make smiles for the other Macs, and was told to not bother, they did not want them. If I made em, they would not guarantee they would ever install em.

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!

kmclemore:

I beg to differ, MnC. We do not maliciously move things - if they don't belong in one forum we do move them to another (such as 26C topics posted to the Powersailor forum). And if you have specific examples of the other things you've alleged, I would like you to please contact me via PM and give me those examples... I will look into them. The bottom line is that we welcome *all* Macgregor sailors here, and always will.

Maybe there's some truth to what you say, but I've seen several people I've gotten to know and trust tell a different story. I've seen similar complaints against MacGregorSailors.com in different threads and on different forums, but here is the best thread (& 2 in that thread defend you as well): http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/sh ... p?t=137097

Some of the highlights of complaints against this forum:

If you like seeing posts go missing, moved to places where you cannot find them, the place to be is MacSailors. There moderation would be described as enthusiastic, to say the least. Some good people at all the forums, but pushy moderators can spoil the fun of a place.

Bill is being too kind about MS [MacGregorSailors.com], they treated him like he was dirt. I was ashamed of the way he was treated over there. His treatment made me look elsewhere for a place to hang out. Been back very seldom, do not miss the place at all. If you do not have a power-sailor, they pretty much do not want your company.
Older Macs are not much welcomed at that site IMHO.

This is the better of the two sites by a long stretch. In all my ten thousands of posts at forum pages, I have never seen a ruder moderator than that site has. If Bill would disagree with that, I will eat a hundred dollar bill. lol The ADMIN, no one has seen him in years. Years! I have a theory where he is, but they do not allow computers.

the OTHER forums [MacGregorSailors.com] has deleted and sent me emails threatning hanging and execusion...[He goes on to defend your right to treat people like that because you guys own the forum]

Ok.... I guess I should spill the dirt....
A friend from my sailing club wanted to buy an X, and he was impulsive. he gave a credit card number to a dealer in lake lanier, (GA), as a deposit on a boat he saw on the internet....
he was planning on leaving friday (in his mini van) to go get it, and I posted a urgent request [on MacGregorSailors.com] to get some info on the dealer....
The thread was moved to the 'pub' that is an off topic area, that is only viewable when you specifically subscribe.
When I saw it was deleted (moved) I ran a search on my posts, and got zero hits on my thread title... (weird!)
So I posted again, saying what happened to my thread. -that's were the fireworks started....

I figured the dealer was a sponsor, and they were 'sanitizing' the tread, (thinking someone said they were a bad dealer) -which turned out not to be the case... IIRC, Jimmy (?) said they are good people and if they say the boat is clean it probably is...
that's pretty much it.

they moved a thread to an area that is not searchable unless you specifically subscribe.
I pm'ed several moderators on why that was done, and never got a straight answer, other than the TOS... -we can do what we want, when we want...
I got some info on the X, and my friend ended up buying one locally, and he is storing it in a rack/stack mast down.... and is happy with it.
(he is a world class snipe sailor, but wanted something for his wife and friends to use).
so that's pretty much the dirt...

I also posted some jokes in a thread in the 'pub' that were kinda racy, that got deleted. they didn't appreciate some of the jokes, and I said its a PUB... isn't that for adult content... but they said it was not appropriate... actually, they just replied with the T.O.S. we can do what we want when we want...
(tos = terms of service).
none of that bothered me, I was, and am, only concerned that my friend didn't get taken...
So that's the dirt.....

It is that forums [MacGregorSailors.com] loss, that they chased you (good people) off.
As an example, a forum which I will not mention by name (lol) [MacGregorSailors.com] has a member trying to remove a personal ad for the sale of his 99X. It has sold. Repeated efforts requesting that the ad be dropped have failed because the mods say only the admin can do that function, and he is far too busy to be bothered with forum business with things like jobs and family. That is going on as I type this, it is pretty sad. The guy wants the phone to stop ringing about a sailboat for sale, and no can do, they are too busy. The only guy that can cancel the ad we are told has not posted on his forum in years because he is too busy? Too busy to help members with a problem their site is causing? Brother. Lol. Of course, most members there have no idea of the issue, because the thread was placed in the dead, no one has the keys to the place, called the pub, the off topic forum. What is off topic about a guy needing help stoping an ad? That is web site business, but that forum has no place for web site business, repeated requests for help through PMs goes unanswered. When he uses their forum to ask for help, the thread is mouth balled to the pub, where no one sees it. The mods can't even leave the guys request to be left alone in the sailboat threads where people may see his request to not call and bother him, they moved it to a locked down thread no one sees. Why? Why would they do that?

[cmagnus4]

Strange way of supporting this forum
cmagnus

[MacNCheese]

Strange way of supporting this forum
cmagnus

It may seem so, but sometimes the best way to help someone is to point out their weakness so that they can improve. If we just heap praise on someone that is headed in the wrong direction, we're not helping them at all.

As I said, if this forum decides to be more welcoming to non-powersailor MacGregor owners, I will be the first to send in my donation to Heath. For example, if they add the "C" badge or other Mac badges to their lineup as a demonstration that they want to be more inclusive.

[kmclemore]

!

kmclemore:

MNC, you have just provided the perfect example as to why we have difficulty here. I respectfully asked you: And if you have specific examples of the other things you've alleged, I would like you to please contact me via PM and give me those examples... I will look into them. But instead of respecting my request and my offer for assistance, you decided to create a public shouting match. Can you tell me why you chose to ignore my polite request?

[MacNCheese]

!

kmclemore:

MNC, you have just provided the perfect example as to why we have difficulty here. I respectfully asked you: And if you have specific examples of the other things you've alleged, I would like you to please contact me via PM and give me those examples... I will look into them. But instead of respecting my request and my offer for assistance, you decided to create a public shouting match. Can you tell me why you chose to ignore my polite request?

If I came across as shouting, then I apologize, that was not my intention. I'm a straight shooter and I call it like I see it, I guess that can come across the wrong way. Please move my post with examples to your "Moderator's only" section. We both know my posts will be deleted soon anyway.

[kmclemore]

In fairness I have maintained your platform to speak your piece and I have not deleted your posts. However, you still have not answered my question...

Can you tell me why you chose to ignore my polite request?

[MacNCheese]

Can you tell me why you chose to ignore my polite request?

[/quote]
That was my mistake. This is your forum and you have the right to ask a PM and I should have respected that.

The reason I made that mistake is I believe forums will not bother to change unless you put pressure on them to change. The only pressure I have is to publicly point out the weakness and hope that other members will carry on the cause. With more than one member asking for change, change may come. If I send a private message to you, it will remain just that, private, nothing will come of it, no change will occur.

There is a lot of things I like about this forum. In the next year I will be upgrading to Your forum is the only good place to discuss them. I can imagine a time when the 26C owners feel welcome here and come back. Then this forum will have no competition. I want that to happen. I want you to succeed because I like it here.

[kmclemore]

Help me understand.. from what I can tell, your only real complaint about our failure to support 26C owners is that they don't have an icon? And that causes you to want to slag this forum? *sigh*

And as far as sending me a PM and having it not be acted upon, I think if you polled our members you'd find that I and the other moderators do a great deal for the members behind the scenes in response to their PM's. We are not always able to do everything they wish, but we do respond and, more often than not, we are able to successfully act on their behalf. Indeed, if you read this thread alone you'll find at least two nice folks who have submitted unsolicited comments, prior to yours, which specifically thank the moderators for their help.

As far as putting pressure on us to change...

We will not change our polices on decorum. Period. Ain't gonna happen.

We have both ladies and gentlemen who visit our forum, and when folks like the fellow you pointed out purposely post obscene or disgusting material, or material which was, in that particular case, truly offensive to women, we will remove it. If the member does it repeatedly, that member will be banned.

Similarly, we will not allow users to make negative or insinuating comments about vendors... that, too, will be removed as we don't wish to get entangled in legal issues (as was potentially the case in the other incident you cited).

Also, we don't allow name-calling, harassment or defamatory statements about other members or religions, races or genders, as at least one of the folks you quoted has done here in this forum.

Unfortunately, when we call them out on such things, some folks become disgruntled and then choose to slag this forum in retribution. That is their right, but they will do it elsewhere, not here.

As is true with any respectable association, we have clear rules in order to provide a place where everyone feels safe and welcome, and the members here, in the great majority, understand and agree with these rules, as you can see by the many positive comments in this thread. Indeed, they agree so heartily that they are willing to open their wallets to support it, and in this economy that's a serious testament (thanks to all of you nice guys & gals!)

However, if a person visiting this forum does agree with the forum's rules, there are, as you noted, many other forums which they may join and in which they may participate... and we heartily encourage them to do so.

[Divecoz]

Geeeeeee Wizzzzzz.. It is a Mac Board.. It is Primarily comprised of Power-sailor Boat Owners.. The Numbers are the Proof.. There is, a Non- X & M Section.. It makes sense to me because? The Majority of what can be done and is discussed , is often not relevant between the two very different boats.. YET ....Lets use Sumner if you will so allow, as an example? Sumner makes numerous post's .. Sumner has a 26S.. He also has an Endeavor 32 .. He post about both..
Kevin....... Kevin and I have had our differences ( hahahaha ).......from time to time.. they even went to PM's! But in the end ? When I needed some information that Kevin could supply me with.. He was STILL more than happy and willing to take his time and walk me slowly through his knowledge base and even IIRC supplied some links to back up his offered Opinion..
Gary? Gary is Gary.. Now you post he's running down this board on other boards..What Ever.... Little surprises me..
Icons for the 26S & 26D ? I have no answer... Except to say.. be more active in the S&D Section.. Bring more S&D sailors and buld a larger contributing .... membership.. The Moving of post? A few of mine have been moved.. a couple have been removed..( hahahhaa) There is no perfect solution!!.. Someone or ones have to Occasionally , make Judgement calls..
I posted a couple of mine intentionally on the general Board.. They Honestly Fit Better, By topic, In other sections of this board But.. I know by my experience those sections are NOT Viewed as much as The General Board is.. BUT they were left up , inappropriate as they were, for a little while, then Kevin moved them to a less used but more appropriate section.. OH WELL... I mean we really dont want just One Big Board, do we??
The MG Experience Board is like that.. Its a GREAT board a Great Source of information.. But because there is little standing differentiation concerning topics, your post / question can be lost in a matter of hours.. Never to be seen again..

[Crikey]

Nice Dive!

Crikey!, why wouldn't I support this Forum..... it's great!
Cheque's in the mail, keep up the good work guys.....

[robbarnes1965]

I know by my experience those sections are NOT Viewed as much as The General Board is.. BUT they were left up , inappropriate as they were, for a little while, then Kevin moved them to a less used but more appropriate section.. OH WELL... I mean we really dont want just One Big Board, do we??
The MG Experience Board is like that.. Its a GREAT board a Great Source of information.. But because there is little standing differentiation concerning topics, your post / question can be lost in a matter of hours.. Never to be seen again..

This is a GREAT board.

Improvements could be made but it's a board that I believe is the result of a love of Macs and not a real business. Hard to fault the moderators or developer when, overall, it works well but does not supply a relevant income, if any. Having once turned a hobby into a business, my experience is that the biggest pains in the butts are the least likely to want to pay for anything. A lot of people forget that you are freely sharing and helping and that, in the end, you never HAD to do it.

Now, that said, I agree with Divecoz in that info disappears quickly. A great feature would be to receive email alerts when a topic you've initiated/posted to, or a watchword/phrase (ex:whisker poles) gets added to the board. This way it would not matter that your topic is not always front page. Again, I understand why programming this in might not be worth while when the board is already so popular and it won't put food on the table - or worse - keep the sailor/programmer off the water

Rob

[kmclemore]

Now, that said, I agree with Divecoz in that info disappears quickly. A great feature would be to receive email alerts when a topic you've initiated/posted to, or a watchword/phrase (ex:whisker poles) gets added to the board. This way it would not matter that your topic is not always front page. Again, I understand why programming this in might not be worth while when the board is already so popular and it won't put food on the table - or worse - keep the sailor/programmer off the water

Rob

Thanks for your support, Rob.

In answer to your query, yeah, that would take some programming and I'm not sure our board-ware supports it.

However, there's a really good solution out there, though... why not just use Google Alerts?

http://www.google.com/alerts

Check it out... I think it will give you exactly what you need. If you format your search query using Google's "SITE" keyword it will target only this website, and you can use quotes to specify specific phrases.

Search query example:

• "whisker poles" site:macgregorsailors.com

Cheers,
Kevin

[robbarnes1965]

Cool. I'm testing it now.