Anchor light alternative?

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Sumner
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by Sumner »

RussMT wrote:
RobertB wrote:BTW, after staring this thread, I have ordered the Hella Marine NaviLED 360 All Round Lamp for my mast head and a DPDT ON-ON switch to switch the polarity of the power to my mast wiring.
I think you will be very happy with that configuration.
+1

The under 2 watt usage is big in my mind if you are trying to conserve batteries, save on smaller solar power or run the motor less for battery charging....

http://www.hellamarine.com/en/products/ ... -lamp.html

We have had no problems with the light,

Sum
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DaveB
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by DaveB »

I just went thru most of the 31 posts and didn't respond since this question has been posted a number of times and gave my opion.
Since new updates of divices have been added I will state this.
I don't like any additional weight at top of mast plus wire that runs to it. Our boats can anchor in shallow waters and I usually anchor in 3 ft. of water in a cove depending on tides, this eliminates any 3ft or more draft powerboat hitting me at high speeds.
I use a $5 wallmart 6/3 led 360 degree that I attach to backstay 4 ft. above boom, I set it on 3 leds and plenty light that aluminates the boat and can be seen 1 mile.
In a more open anchorage I set it on the 6 leds and can be seen at least 2 miles.
It uses 4 AA batteries that I put in rechargeable batteries and running on 6 leds has a 72 hr recharge, 120hrs at 3 leds.(I use a 50 watt cigerate lighter inverter to charge all the portable batteries including my handheld gps, VHF)
I keep two more on boat for cockpit lighting and backup.
I anchor in many harbors were you see a fleet of boats with mast lights and doesn't make sence the light being so far up the mast were it doesn't shine on the boat.
Just my 2 cents, others have some nice mast light aragements and it's what you want to do and area you cruise in that makes a diffrence.
I do a lot of beaching the boat on a sand spit cove and any 60mph speed boat will have to do a 100ft. jump over it to get close to me. :)
Dave
RobertB wrote:Has anyone considered installing a switch to turn off the R/G bow light and leave on the stern and masthead light to act as a 360 degree white anchor light?

I would like to avoid working a new wire the length of my mast or placing a light down low where it would keep me awake when sleeping in the cockpit (at night).
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Divecoz
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by Divecoz »

RobertB .. Use the old wire to pull a new wire / wires .. Done deal.. 5 minutes...
Yep I see your point DaveB.. and Dave B knows Pelican Harbor No Doubt better than I do.. That's were I saw the Fisherman with the illegal net and where the fellow came in late at night to a FULL Anchorage and at least could see my boat.. I usually anchored about.. 100 yards North? of the Rangers Pier and about 100 feet off the Cayo Costa's shore.. Just south of the beach and that little cove.. In The End .. its all a personal choice....
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RobertB
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by RobertB »

5 minutes - I wish it were that easy - still working my way thru the styrofoam plug from the top.
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Divecoz
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by Divecoz »

Robert the foam is not all that far from the top.. Beg Borrow or Steal something long enough to go about 15 feet down the mast.. Fish Tape Threaded rods Literally a Bow and Arrow.. attach a piece of string with a few nuts to the end of your pushing device ..Hold roll of string in your hand .. Push Rod and nuts thru foam.. pull rod out .. Lift mast a little playing see-saw with the string the nuts will carry your string ( roll of string still in your hand ) to the bottom of the mast.. string needs to be at least.... say 40 feet long :D :D .. as I said I used 1/2 PVC pipe .. Its NOT heavy it has Zero effect ....Zero Real Life Actual Effect.... on the boat .. Again..My Light and my pipe and the wire has Zero Effect on my boats righting ability.. Its NOT 2 or 3 pounds at the top of the mast its 2 or 3 pounds distributed along the length of the mast..
RobertB wrote:5 minutes - I wish it were that easy - still working my way thru the styrofoam plug from the top.
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Sumner
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by Sumner »

Divecoz wrote:.... In The End ...(anchor lights). its all a personal choice....
Yep 8)
Divecoz wrote:.. Dave B knows Pelican Harbor No Doubt better than I do......
Yep he likes to put the boat on the beach....

Image

....just off the picture above to the left....and... you like...
Divecoz wrote:..I usually anchored about.. 100 yards North? of the Rangers Pier and about 100 feet off the Cayo Costa's shore.. Just south of the beach and that little cove....
Image

...just off to the right of the picture above....

We anchored across on the other side a fair ways from the Ranger station...

Image

When a front came in we moved around the point where we had been ....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... -10-8.html

....into an even more sheltered cove off of Pelican. Nice place and I'm sure we will be in there a number of times with the Endeavour, but we now prefer to not be there on the weekends if possible,

Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida
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Divecoz
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by Divecoz »

I agree Sumner .. weekends can get CRAZY in there..... Crazy Tight anyway.. My brother lives in PCF and he on occasion, they will overnight either on the outboard or inboard portion of his Dive Trips ..
On One of my trips.. stay-overs in Pelican, I pulled into Pelican Bay and kept to Port and anchored in that half moon bay that is part of Punta Blanca Island..
( Yes.. Thats where I was trying to describe.. ""When a front came in we moved around the point where we had been"" )

It was still a rough ride but better than if I had used my usual spot.. I have used Pelican Bay numerous times and where I described is not a far distance from the facilities 8) and because of depth or lack of it, no one ever gets to close to me..
Humm I often wondered??? That Little cut / bay in the first picture off to the left where Dave and the trailer sailors like to hang out?? No one seems to ever be there in the evening much.. Might that be a good place for an overnight? Yea the T.S folks do, but I think they are watching the tides.. / planning on the tides.. It seemed like it would provide pretty good cover from the wind..??
Humm I have watched those Tourist boats come and go from ? The South end of the bay?? Maybe when I get the time ,once we move down, I will have a chance to use the inflatable to check that channel out for location and depth....
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yukonbob
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by yukonbob »

Most of what I see is ink black water in pitch black nights with matching shore (like having your eyes closed and not being able to see your hands held out in front of you). And it's not 50 plus boats in a harbour that makes improper lighting confusing its a lone vessel in the dark. You add an extra white light to your 26 ft boat and it becomes a 60 meter tanker three times farther away than it actually is. I've come upon fishing boats at anchor with cabin lights on, and it almost always takes a few min to determine how far and how big they are, and sometimes exactly what they are...is it twenty ft or two hundred, and is it a mile off or 200 yrds (and I have better than 20/20 so don't imply :P ) It's funny though cause we get avlot of cruise ships in...and at night it is hard to tell which way, and exactly how big they are ( they range from big to f'ing big, and how close you hit their wake in the dark makes a big difference) I don't see adding extra lights in a busy anchorage any problem, but the situation varies, and to each his own. Adding blue lights or multiple whites could be mistaken for law enforcement, tugs pulling a load or range lights on a larger vessel. Remember rec boats aren' the only ones out there and there are many commercially trained vessels looking for regulation lighting, and fibreglass doesn't show up that well on radar. The legality was more for compliance, not court. These are not building codes...they are not minimum standards, they are the RULES period. As to whether you'll get a ticket, probably not. As for speed violations, last year a group of sport fishermen left a local harbour (here) in a 30' baydiver (cause they go straight to the bottom lol) They fell asleep on step...going into a major city harbor. Coast guard boat in SD harbour hit a moving lit boat and killed an occupant. 36' very drunk baydiver hit a well lit 30 ft in the stern (thats where i sleep) at 45mph. There is no security against anything ever.

"You must display the appropriate light in all weathers from sunset to sunrise. At night you may display only those lights that are unmistakably in keeping with the rules. Any other lights displayed must not impair the visibility or distinctive character of your required lights or interfere with the keeping of a proper lookout. Rule 20(a) and (b)"

"Seamanship
Day Shapes and Night Lights
COLREGS: Part 2.
Although the COLREGS (Collision Regulations) are pretty clear about what should and should not be displayed on a vessel, they also tend to be a little obtuse, and thus open to potential misinterpretation – something we have been guilty of as well.

An improperly lit sailboat. The masthead light indicates it is at anchor. The stern light suggests it is under way, although you should be able to see the red port light as well as a steaming light if it is under power. You have no way of knowing what this guy is doing (and by the way, he's heading for the rocks!)

The lights displayed by a pleasure craft (under 20 meters) are very simple. Towards or at the bow you must have the red and green forward and side facing lights. A vessel under power, and this includes a sailboat motor sailing, must have an all around white light (if less than 6 meters). For a vessel less than 12 meters this light can be split into two parts with one being stern mounted and aft facing, and the other mast mounted and forward and side facing. A sailboat sailing without motor must switch the all around white light off so it is not confused with a power driven vessel."

Two legal cases...one in a navigable waterway and one in an anchorage.

Apportionment - Speed - Alcohol Impairment - Anchor Lights

Ens v. Gabany , No.75911/91Q,

Apportionment of liability was the issue in this small vessel collision case. The Plaintiff's vessel was at anchor and was hit by the Defendant's vessel. The Court apportioned liability 70% to the Defendant and 30% to the Plaintiff. The faults on the part of the Defendant were traveling at night at an excessive rate of speed when having consumed sufficient alcohol to have affected his judgment and vision. The faults on the part of the Plaintiff were not having an anchor light and anchoring his vessel in an area where through traffic was predictable and probable.

Liability - Unsafe Speed - Anchor lights - Contributory Negligence - Limitation - Owner/Master Entitlement to Limit

Conrad v. Snair, 1995 CanLII 4175,

This case involved a collision at night between a Boston Whaler and an anchored unlit sailboat. As a result of the collision, a passenger of the Boston Whaler was seriously injured. The issues concerned the liability for the collision, contributory negligence, and limitation of liability. Both the trial Judge and the Court of Appeal found that the driver of the Boston Whaler was entirely at fault for the collision. The driver was found to have been traveling at an excessive rate of speed and failed to maintain a proper lookout. With respect to the sailboat, the trial Judge and the Court of Appeal held that there was no presumption of fault because of the failure to exhibit an anchor light. They further found that there was a local custom to not display anchor lights. The driver of the Boston Whaler also argued that his passenger was contributorily negligent in that she knew of his propensity to drive his boat in a particular manner. The Court of Appeal held that even if the master was known to be reckless, that would be an insufficient basis for a finding of contributory negligence. Although in light of these findings, the Court of Appeal did not need to decide whether contributory negligence on the part of the plaintiff would be a complete bar to damages, it nevertheless gave the opinion that if the Plaintiff had been negligent, the Provincial contributory negligence statute would apply to apportion damages. Finally, the driver of the Boston Whaler argued that he was entitled to limit his liability under the Canada Shipping Act because the accident occurred while he was acting in his capacity as master and not owner of the vessel. In lengthy reasons the Court of Appeal analyzed the problems that arise where the master is also the owner. Ultimately, the Court agreed with the trial Judge that the owner/master of the Boston Whaler was at fault as owner in failing to ensure his alter ego, the master, traveled at a safe speed.

"Preventing a collision or close-quarters situation is among the most demanding challenges a yachtsman can face. Accurately judging distance at sea by sight is still one of the most difficult of all nautical skills to acquire. It takes a lot of practice to get it right, especially at night or in conditions of reduced visibility. Radar can help, but only if it is fully understood and properly used."
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Divecoz
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by Divecoz »

Robert as I read your post a few things came up often..
DUI... Excessive speed.. No Lights what so ever...
In The Col Regs I do see requirements of what you must have .. what I don't see is? You Many Not Have or You May Only Have or You are not to exceed..I am NOT reading anything like that anywhere . Help me and others because some of us are not seeing a Limit on lights and if there is?
MOST ALL of The Cruise Boats and Freighters etc. are exceeding what the Col Regs Require.. What The Hecks with that?
Further... I have never traveled any real distance in my boat after dark.. Why would I ? Lack of planning? There is too much potential for, Stuff being out there, that I cannot see... That IS reported a lot. People hitting unmarked unseen stuff at night.a lot of ICW markers Are NOT lit.. As for Big ships and not knowing what they are or in which direction they were traveling? That has Never Been an Issue for me ..
I see a lot of Cruise Boats around Cozumel. Cozumel averages 5 a day everyday 365 days a year and on many days we would see anywhere from 8 to as high as 20! The Two Car ferries travel no less than 2 times a day each and the Passenger ferries 6 of them are moving back and forth Mainland to the island on the hours every hour between 5 AM and 11:30 PM. We can recognize them easily in the dark as well and distinguish them from other vessels easily.. I don't have 20x20 vision but I can sure tell what it is . Their lights ALL exceed Col Regs by about what I would guess to be 10's , 100's and in the case of Ocean Going Cruise boats THOUSANDS!
Explain that Please.. That would help us all a lot.. Please explain how Thousands of Commercial Boats get away with using hundreds to thousands of lights above and beyond Col Regs within for sure 20 miles of land Every Night of the year.. 100 miles or more out at sea who would ever know what they are doing ? BUT when they are within 20 miles of land? Every Commercial Port I know of, has Port Authorities manning stations 24/7/365
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by yukonbob »

You must display the appropriate light in all weathers from sunset to sunrise. At night you may display only those lights that are unmistakably in keeping with the rules. Any other lights displayed must not "impair the visibility or distinctive character" of your required lights or "interfere with the keeping of a proper lookout." Rule 20(a) and (b)

If you go back to tkanzler's post Rule 30 for vessels over 50M and deck lights. As for the cruise ships, don't know, don't care, besides, when do they ever mess up and sink with all their technology? All I'm saying is there are a lot of light combinations out there we are not normally used to seeing and some may not know they exist, and putting the wrong lights could lead to a major confusion that's that. If you're chained up with twenty other boats who cares, but again each situation requires forethought not just for your safety but other boats as well.
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by Russ »

yukonbob wrote:Most of what I see is ink black water in pitch black nights with matching shore (like having your eyes closed and not being able to see your hands held out in front of you). And it's not 50 plus boats in a harbour that makes improper lighting confusing its a lone vessel in the dark. You add an extra white light to your 26 ft boat and it becomes a 60 meter tanker three times farther away than it actually is. I've come upon fishing boats at anchor with cabin lights on, and it almost always takes a few min to determine how far and how big they are, and sometimes exactly what they are...is it twenty ft or two hundred, and is it a mile off or 200 yrds (and I have better than 20/20 so don't imply :P )
I find this post interesting. I agree that night time boating can be very confusing. Depth perception at night in particular. Your experience is valid and certainly worth considering.

In my experience, solitary anchor lights in dark places are not very obvious. When you come up close to a sailboat with anchor light on top, is it a star? Most of us have our eyes trained at the horizon. In my experience, cabin lights helped me determine it was a boat. I agree that a stern light could be construed as a running light.

One captain I know hangs a light from a halyard so it "moves" when the boat rocks. It also is adjustable so it doesn't look like a star and doesn't look like a shore light. I suppose there is a good case for that.

We all must do what we feel comfortable with. After being legal (I'm afraid of lawyers) I want to avoid collision. Therefore, the solar landscaping lights on my deck serve a dual purpose. They help me see while walking the deck, and they light up my upper deck so yahoos can see it's something white in front of them. My blue hull looks like water (which is why it goes so fast). I've come up on properly lit anchored boats and the ones with candles and such in the cockpit make them look more like boats in my opinion.

--Russ
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by Divecoz »

OK then I " think " we are good to go.. Because my Anchor Light is 30 feet above any and all other lights that may shine on or illuminate the deck of my boat.. Be I up and sitting in the cockpit or asleep in the berth.. 1 - 360 degree 2nm light 36 feet in the air and all alone. It tells you, I am at anchor and the rest is for my personal desires .. be it reading, fishing, skinny dipping, it dont matter .. I am NOT abstructing your view of my anchor light when it is ( mine is anyway) in fact 30 feet above the deck.. As we both read it.... There Is NO... WWII Black Out Rule , concerning, Convience / Deck Lights..??
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by Tomfoolery »

Divecoz wrote: There Is NO... WWII Black Out Rule , concerning, Convience / Deck Lights..??
the U.S. Department of Homeland Security wrote:
Rule 30 - Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.
(c) A vessel at anchor may , and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks. (emphasis added)
I agree, and I think what you do is both legal and prudent, though I'm not a lawyer, so my legal advise (as it were) is worth what you've paid for it. :|
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Divecoz
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by Divecoz »

tkanzler and to all the rest of us as well..
This took a lot of discussion and in the end I hope we all feel comfortable with what we have .. I know I do..
I will Copy Cut Paste and Print, all references to the Col Regs that support my situation / position.. I will add them to the Clear hanging file in the, on the. head door... for any future need while aboard.. We have yet as a sailing community so much as read about any other sailors having Formal issues with Deck Lights etc etc etc.. I for one, have no intentions of being in any National or otherwise Shipping Lanes after dark.. Should I find myself in that situation? I am, No Doubt, at best, A Drift and I WILL have on every light I have available and I will be shooting off flares whenever I see another boat within sight :D :D
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yukonbob
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Re: Anchor light alternative?

Post by yukonbob »

For sure. I find it a little surprising as to how many boaters have never been out on the water after dark or refuse to go, by choice or not. I think that it a very important situation that everyone should practice rather than get caught in unexpectedly. I don't think this is something people should fear or avoid and, education and practice can not only extend boating hours, but make everyone safer. I don't get 'caught' when I come in late or leave really really early. Sometimes making crossings early or late during the day can avoid nasty weather or let me catch a few more fish :P . Food for thought...you wouldn't add a couple extra red and greens, or throw an extra stern light on to more visible...right? So why do we put any less emphasis on anchor lighting? Is it any less important?
See how well you do in the nav lights test...
http://www.usboating.com/
No cheating :wink:
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