Furling Jib Cover?

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Good feedback Bob, now I'm second guessing my intention to get one of those socks. I'm surprised that twisting it up doesn't make the flogging stop though. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of sail protection if the cover eats a hole through the sail.

The constant flogging of the sock at dock has worn a hole through my jib. I've tried everything to stop it from flapping, i twist it up, tie the Jib halyard as high up as I can reach then back to the mast and tie the lower part to the front stantions and it still flaps away. The dime sized hole is 2/3rds the way up, and corresponding dark patches all the way across. This just means I get to call Judy and get her to make a matching jib for my kick a$$ main she sent me. Thanks again

[Russ]

I too am surprised the sock couldn't be tied off. I always pulled the sheets through the slot and pulled them tight to keep it taught. Also tied the halyard tight vertically.

I still have mine. What I hated most was the process of hauling it up each weekend. Crazy to try it on a bouncing sea. Really takes two people, one to pull the halyard and another to zipper it. The built in cover is so much nicer.

--Russ

[dca81]

I installed a furling jib cover this year. I had not noticed any significant wear or damage on my 2 year old jib but I slip my boat all summer at 9000 ft, so it gets a lot of UV. Also, I was concerned about demasting stories on this site and thought it wise to install a jib cover halyard to use as a backup forestay. I have not experienced it as overly burdensome to riase and lower at the dock, but I always have my admiral to assist, it would be cumbersome to single hand. Also I have not noted any wear on the jib from rubbing, but I did notice that if not pulled tight the the cover flapped a lot more in the winds when docked. I was able to mitigate some of the flapping by keeping the jib halyard tight.

[yukonbob]

Nothing to do with keeping the halyard tight but rather the extra material in the sock. The twisting definitely helps. After the halyard is tight and tied off at the cleat I run it out and wrap it around the the whole works sock and sail and pull it tight back to the cleat on the other side of the mast. This stops a lot of it but not all.

[Calin]

I too am surprised the sock couldn't be tied off. I always pulled the sheets through the slot and pulled them tight to keep it taught. Also tied the halyard tight vertically.

I still have mine. What I hated most was the process of hauling it up each weekend. Crazy to try it on a bouncing sea. Really takes two people, one to pull the halyard and another to zipper it. The built in cover is so much nicer.

--Russ

Agree. I had both combitations, a sock and a new genoa with UV cover protection from Judy B. By far I prefer the built in cover solution. The increased sail quality from Judy over the stock sail, makes it a double win situation.

[Judy B]

Exhibit #1: This is a picture of UV damage to Pico Mainsails after 4 seasons of use at a sailing school on San Francisco Bay. The sails were wrapped around the masts for storage. I replaced 10-12 sails for them over the past two years. Now they store them out of the sun.



In contrast, the sails on all my boats have had covers made of 4.5 oz white UV dacron (impregnated with some sort of Ti04 protectant) and the covers lasted 11-12 years -- about as long as the thread did before the UV made it brittle. The sailcloth underneath the UV cover is still quite servicable and the sail is worth having a new cover put on for about 40% the price of a new sail. And, since the sails were built of the proper cloth to resist stretching, they shape is still quite good. I'm still at the front of the pack - only the very best skippers can catch me or pass me.

I personally believe that it's worth paying ONCE for sails made of adequately low-stretch cloth and built with construction features that make it hold its shape. They'll sail like new (almost) for years and years (for the average weekend sailor). Life is too short to sail with crappy sails, IMO. New sails make an old boat sail like new.

[BOAT]

Judy,

I have the Factory Doyle genoa - it's a fulrling rig so I am not going to be storing it in a sail bag.

Here are my options:
1. Try to protect that factory sail for as long as possible by spending more money on it for UV protection and covers.
2. Run the factory sail to death as fast as I can so I can get a quality sail from you with UV protection.
3. Leave the factory sail in the bag as a backup and just buy a high quality sail from you with UV protection.

Any options i left out?

[Judy B]

Judy,

I have the Factory Doyle genoa - it's a fulrling rig so I am not going to be storing it in a sail bag.

Here are my options:
1. Try to protect that factory sail for as long as possible by spending more money on it for UV protection and covers.
2. Run the factory sail to death as fast as I can so I can get a quality sail from you with UV protection.
3. Leave the factory sail in the bag as a backup and just buy a high quality sail from you with UV protection.

Any options i left out?

Here's one way to think it through.

1. Adding a UV edge cover and foam luff pad will cost between $300-400 plus 50-100 for two way shipping to a loft. (I'm assuming it already has luff tape on it) . Cost to upgrade the existing sail is $350-500.

2. Full conversion costs: Sailcare charges $460 to convert a Mac26X or M hank on genoa to RF. Plus shipping. The will install luff tape, UV cover, and foam luff pad. They don't install reefing patches for that price. (My RF genoas come with radial reefing patches as a standard feature.)

3. If you have a UV edge cover made of the right UV resistant cloth (UV Dacron or acylic), you don't need a sleeve. One layer is sufficient for UV protection. For winter, take the sail inside.

4. If the factory genoa is in good condition, it's probably worth about 50-60% of what the same sail costs new. Somebody on a limited budget will be thrilled to buy it. Sell it on eBay and use the $$$ to offset the cost of the new one.

5. If you buy a new one that's well built and you won't need to keep the old one as a backup. Sell it.

Fair winds,
JudyB

This picture shows a genoa with a UV edge cover, segmented foam luff pads for better shape when furled, and the reefing patch at the tack (bottom front corner) of the sail.



ps.
The three dots are reefing marks at 90%,, 80% and 70%. The reefing marks correspond to .9*.8 = 81%, .8 * .8 = 64% and .7 *.7 49% areas compared to the original 150% genoa. However, due to the location and short length genoa tracks on the 26 X&M's, you can't take full advantage of the reefing possibilities.

[Judy B]

Well I dont know if anyone else has both a UV strip and the sock, but my jibs luff still fell apart in my hands after being covered with the black sunbrella sock And as I sit here looking out the window at it sitting in 102 degrees and extreme UV, I'm worrying if the UV strip and sock are enough

Something is missing from this story, I think. Even one good UV cover will protect the sail from damage. This story simply doesn't ring true.

If UV destroyed the cloth, using either of the covers you have the one of following has to be true:

1. The covers aren't made of Sunbrella (or the equivalent acrylic woven fabric such as Sauleda brand) or Odysessy or real DUV fabric. You shouldn't need both UV strip and sock. One or the other should do the job if it's brand name fabric design for the job.
OR
2. The covers were added too late, after the UV ate away most of the yarns used to weave the cloth. Two years in the sun can eat away a significant portion of the thread, so that it rips sooner when it gets flogged.

The cloth used in the OEM genoas has a relatively low-thread-count per inch, and uses relatively small-diameter yarns.
All things being equal: small diameter yarns don't last very long in UV. ATBE, fatter yarns last longer when exposed to UV. ATBE, fabrics with high thread count last longer too. ... so it doesn't take long to weaken the cloth by UV exposure and flog it to get vertical rips because the threads break along the leech.

Repairing a UV weakened sail is oten an exercise in serial disappoint because it bends along the repair line and rips again. It's like "throwing good money after bad"

Fair winds,
Judy B
Sailmaker

[boaterjen]

I sent an email to JudyB to learn more about genoa vs. jib and sun strips, new sail from her vs. keeping factory sail...

Jen

[mastreb]

I've got a tear at the head of my mainsail, and I've not UV protected the factory sails at all as it has been my plan since I bought the boat to upgrade the sails when the factory sails blow out. I'm going to order a new RF Genoa and a mainsail this winter, and store them aboard so I can put them on whenever the factory ones bite the bullet.

[yukonbob]

I sent an email to JudyB to learn more about genoa vs. jib and sun strips, new sail from her vs. keeping factory sail...

Jen

You will not be disappointed if you get one of her sails. They make the boat sail way better and you can tell the quality just by looking at them…then by feeling them… then sailing them. I plan to order a matching jib before spring.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

That does look like a full featured Genoa Judy, what is the weight of the Dacron? As I mentioned, I'm going to be in the market for new sails one of these days when I finish all my current projects. One thing that concerns me is the boat's better pointing ability when sheeted inside the shrouds. Can you go larger than 100% jib and still sheet inside or is 100% pretty much the maximum for that? The stock Genoa is so baggy when furled that you don't get all that much benefit I've noticed by just rolling it up to 100%. I'm sure those luff pads help, but I've heard that even with that, you still can't match the shape of a jib when furled down to 100.

[BOAT]

You sail looks great Judy, thanks for the advice skipper.

I think I would like to buy your Genoa and not even install the factory one. I would like to contact you to get a quote.

[KookaSnook]

I have a sunbrella strip on my jib made locally in Paynesville and no sock. It has been up for 18 months now and exposed 24/7. Not quite as bright or hot as Queensland but UV is quite high. Hhave not seen any deterioration in the sail at all.

BB

Our furling jib is also left up all the time here on the Gold Coast, Queensland Australia and we don't have a jib sock for it. We only had the boat for about 5 months when we noticed the jib was starting to fray badly. We thought it was due to us being learner Mac sailors and sailing in strong winds so we emailed the main MacGregor office on the weekend from our Ipad while aboard to ask them for advice. They not only got back to us virtually straight away but told us how to get the jib down and suggested a UV strip be added when we got the sail repaired.

Our sails came from Doyles up there on the Sunshine Coast so we send them up to Doyles via a courier the following week and they quickly did the repair and added the UV strip at the same time. There charges we thought were very reasonable and the service excellent. Now the jib is operating well and no more fraying.