still stumped adjusting shrouds

[Wayne nicol]

Here's my experience,
The dealer gave me one of those doo hickies with the twin bolts in, great intention, and I do appreciate it, but in order to put enough tension on the shroud with that thing, it just bent and folded, so I just did as the other poster here said, raised the mast, checked the shrouds, lowered the mast just a tad, adjusted the shrouds, and re raised it, until I was happy, now it's done, until If I noticed the shrouds have stretched some, then I will just do the same again.
And I have had " merry legs" out in 20 kn winds already.

My only concern was , and the boat came like this from the dealer, was that the distance of the top shrouds to the spreaders were not the same!!!!!! .
But I fixed all that up, and alls good now

[bscott]

OP has an .The rigging does not have to be tight due to the application of the backstay.

Boat--I would bet you a case of your favorite beer that your lee shrouds lose tension while the windward shrouds gain tension in heavy air--the beauty of wire rope stretching under pressure.

Bob

[DaveC426913]

OP has an .The rigging does not have to be tight due to the application of the backstay.

My backstay is slack.

I'm not sure I should tension it, as that will increase my mast rake, which I think is already optimal.

[BOAT]

Check for kinks - you know up high and down low so the shackles need to be in line - nothing sideways, I have a bearing on my mast - it rotates VERY easy, but I find if I grab it with two hands and get it straight ahead balanced it will stay there as I make the last few cranks. Maybe you might want to pin the mast - but it must be centered.

Really EVERYONE! Having the mast rotated will indeed make pinning the furler ten times harder!! The mast must be straight ahead no rotation to the left or right!

Get that mast in the center position FIRST before you start saying it's too hard to pin or impossible!! If you don't have the mast centered your not doing it the right way in the first place!! It makes a HUGE difference in getting the thing pinned.

Your pulling near the BOTTOM of the mast when you use the MRS and the thing your trying to pin is connected near the TOP of the mast! The mast bends easy SIDEWAYS! So all your pulling at the bottom is getting lost up above because the side stays are pulling the now FLEXIBLE mast backwards toward the aft! You need to get the mast in it's strongest profile against the side stays like a two by four it's gonna bend sideways but will be a lot stiffer if you keep it straight. The stiffness will prevent bending from the side stays. It takes another full inch of pulling to pin the mast if it's not straight.

If any of you have any doubts about the flexibility of your mast just give it a little bounce while it's in the trailering position - you will see how really "spaghetti like" the mast really is. (ALL masts are like that unless they are made of wood). Wood masts just break like wings on old airplanes - aluminum masts flex like aluminum wings on modern airplanes. Flex is better- but needs tighter stays.

AFTER the mast is pinned it does not bow when it rotates BECAUSE IT'S PINNED! It's a chicken and egg thing, (or is it catch 22?) I dunno, all I know is it must be straight to pin it. After that it won't bow anymore UNLESS YOUR RUNNING THE RIGGING TOO LOOSE! Loose rigging makes the mast bow and bend a lot at every tack. Very bad form.

Mast straight ahead - Otherwise, it's either a two man job or you need to run your rigging loose. Loose rigging is not good. (Did I mention that?)

[BOAT]

OP has an .The rigging does not have to be tight due to the application of the backstay.

Boat--I would bet you a case of your favorite beer that your lee shrouds lose tension while the windward shrouds gain tension in heavy air--the beauty of wire rope stretching under pressure.

Bob

Of course they do - but they do not "go slack" in fact the lbs tension do not change as much on 'boat' because I run them tight - if you run them loose it actually INCREASES the ratio between the windward and leeward stays -

[seahouse]

My backstay is slack.

I'm not sure I should tension it, as that will increase my mast rake, which I think is already optimal.

Hey Dave – Your mast rake is set and fixed by adjusting the forestay length, the backstay tension controls mast bend, such as when you want to control mainsail chord (flatten it). You will notice the two are connected to the mast at different points.

Use the cap (outer) shrouds to tension the forestay, although you can use the backstay tension to help remove sag from the forestay. (Although my knowledge of X rigging is scant, I'm sure someone will correct me if I got this wrong, please).

- Brian.

[Whipsyjac]

Try thinking of the backstay as a mast-vang. It is to the mast what the boom vang is to the boom. It helps control sail shape on a certain point of sail. It does also take up mast pressure when running dead down wind on the The achieves downwind mast support by having the chainplates for the upper shrouds approx 8inches further aft(like many Hunter keelboats). The backstay is not an integral part of proper rig tension. Your rig will stand just fine without the backstay.

Read the many threads about broken masts and you'll learn that the forestay needs proper tension against the shrouds to avoid shock loading. Tightening the forestay by tightening the backstay will not prevent this.

I just tried searching for a previous thread on tuning your rig(there are many) but I couldn't find the one I wanted. There is always the article on tuning fractional rigs under the features heading on the home-page.

The basic advice was A: Level boat fore and aft as well as across beam B: Hang weight from mainsail halyard to use as plumb bob. C: Loosen stays slightly(don't undo more than 1 at a time! or mast could fall to the side), tighten forestay turnbuckle all the way down(this still left me with mast raked aft). D: Tighten upper shrouds until the mast bends 2" forward from your plumb line. E: Tighten lower shrouds until they make a slightly lower note than your uppers.

Please don't take these steps as gospel, rather take ownership if you recognize these steps as your own (tkanzler? or dlandersson? I can't remember) then correct them. Or hopefully someone else remembers and can post a link to the thread.

Any way I followed these instructions by memory (without the plumb line) and my boat sails much better. It still rounds up in a gust(weather helm) but its easily controlled now. I was lying on the cabin top a week ago and happened to sight up the mast, I've only got about an inch of forward bend around the spreaders so I think I'm still a tad loose.

Edit: found link to thread, and it was Vkmaynard with the good advice! 3rd post on linked thread

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... oose+gauge


Willy

[Ormonddude]

OK either I am a Lucky idiot or a genius I simply set the back stay very loose as this is the last stay you adjust on dry land in low wind conditions I adjusted the turnbuckle as loose as it would SAFELY go I left a few threads on either end I raised the mast using my home made raising system. Then I incrementally tightened the upper and mid stays making sure the mast was vertical in other words if port side was pinned 2 holes down I made sure starboard was pinned 2 holes down literally as tight as I could by hand (this later proved inadequate) However I then Tightened my main stay Turnbuckle and seen how it felt at first it was good but the stays and spreaders bend straighten and stretch and soon I once again had to loosen the main stay and this time again incrementally this time putting a little pressure on the upper stays adjusted the mid stays and then pressure on upper stays to adjust mid stays and again tightened the main stay and it was very good except for the aft stay (this will always be the loosest stay as its long and runs to a extruded aluminum masthead on my So I again loosened the main stay and added a couple notches on the tensioner and tightened the Main stay Turnbuckle again and seen a decent rake modest tension on the back and all the stays firm and I have pretty much left it there - there is no sway without load and barely visible sway under load and the Main stay just barely but easily pins every time without to much fuss and I have been very happy ever since. Now all this took 2-3 hours of fiddling to get to where it looks and feels right. Other than that all I can say is good luck Remember apply some pressure to the uppers to tension mid stay and apply pressure to the mid stay to adjust the upper but keep it balanced. (do the same on both sides) if you over tighten you may have to loosen to get the other side right.

[BOAT]

Now that you mention it I did go back and read that post - I think I am running even tighter rig now - 'boat' may be more like 350 pounds outer and 270 pounds inner - I need to take another reading - I have not for a few months so it's time anyways.

[bscott]

An adjustable backstay is a valuable tool for any boat when flying Jib only on a deep reach/run as it stabilizes the forward pull on the mast. The needs a higher upper tension than the to compensate for the lack of the backstay.

You can take some of the draft out of a jib with a slack forestay by hardening up your jib halyard with the winch for close reaching and ease it off for beam/running. Same goes for the main--harden up the halyard for close reaches and ease off for beam/runs.

Bob

[BOAT]

An adjustable backstay is a valuable tool for any boat when flying Jib only on a deep reach/run as it stabilizes the forward pull on the mast. The needs a higher upper tension than the to compensate for the lack of the backstay.

You can take some of the draft out of a jib with a slack forestay by hardening up your jib halyard with the winch for close reaching and ease it off for beam/running. Same goes for the main--harden up the halyard for close reaches and ease off for beam/runs.

Bob

Yes, I have seen racers do this with a backstay too on smaller boats - sort of handy because the adjustment is right there behind the helm.

[DaveC426913]

Bah! I give up.

There are as many opinions of how to tune a Mac - and as many versions of rigging - as their are members.

[BOAT]

not really - we all tune the side stays to 10% of breaking point - the rest of the rig takes care of itself.

[dlandersson]

Mkes me wonder if I should be checking mine - they SEEM to be doing their job.

Is there a link to a tightening tool?

not really - we all tune the side stays to 10% of breaking point - the rest of the rig takes care of itself.

[Torontonian]

I changed the backstage to an adjustable backstage, made my life so much easier when rigging the boat to sail, and I can adjust the mast easily by just pulling on the rope . Would also help ease the shrouds for adjusting.

Hello,
Could you please explain how to do it.
Thanks,