Ultra-light air performance

[Newell]

Another tool we have for "Light-Air" sailing is a Gennaker sail.


We run it with an adjustable tack-line, so the tack can be raised and lowered to max out any puff or point of sail.

Great pic. Also like the adjustable tack rigging. Do you keep the extra forestay/gennaker and sock installed most of the time? Let me guess, you also slip your boat.
I ask because both ideas of boomkicker and extra forestay along with roller furling are great, but they favor the sailor who keeps his boat in a slip. I dropped RF, roll main/mainsheet/vang up on the boom each day of sailing unless staying overnight. My Spin is socked and hoisted with a combo topping lift/halyard. I often sail solo, so take down and put-up considerations are minimized to suit how I sail.

[Wind Chime]

Thanks BOAT,

It's a great reaching genny and runs just fine as well.
It's a blast to set this sail and the standard 150 genoa wing-on-wing but the bow can get a little deep in the water with all that pressure up front, and not sure I would try it on an M with no backstay or in anything but light air

We also have an asymmetrical that looks very similar, but it has a more traditional running triradial cut for off the beam and downwind.

by BOAT » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:41 pm

Wow, that's a cool head-sail you got there

[Wind Chime]

Hey Newell,

- We are dry slipped. We keep the boat fully rigged on the trailer at the marina in a locked compound, and trailer on the road maybe 4 times a year.
- Our three spinnakers are only hoisted when flying, so each spinnaker lives in a seperate dousing sock (for easy deployment/retrieveal) and they are stored below deck in a breathable sail bag to keep them dry so the colors don't run, we also fly a staysail sometimes (inside the fore-triangle) so there is already lotsa crap on the foredeck.

I sail solo a lot as well, and have most everything rigged for a one-man-show. But even so ... sometimes it turns into a one-man-gong-show

by Newell » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:39 pm

Do you keep the extra forestay/gennaker and sock installed most of the time? Let me guess, you also slip your boat.
I ask because both ideas of boomkicker and extra forestay along with roller furling are great, but they favor the sailor who keeps his boat in a slip. I dropped RF, roll main/mainsheet/vang up on the boom each day of sailing unless staying overnight. My Spin is socked and hoisted with a combo topping lift/halyard. I often sail solo, so take down and put-up considerations are minimized to suit how I sail.

[Steve K]

Newell's mention of the topping lift reminded me, I do use mine like he explains.
It does have less effect if you are heeling the boat (by rail weight) to leeward.

I have a drifter (sewed it myself from a Sailrite kit)
This sail is cut like a Genny and is a little bigger than my 150. It is 3/4oz. nylon. However, unlike the Gennaker, this sail is hanked onto the forestay, just like other headsails. It tacks inside the forestay, like a regular jib/Genny. I find this sail very useful in the lightest conditions and all points of sail. I've (due to pure laziness) found it will take more wind than one might think but there is a point where you're risking stretching it out of shape. So I don't let the wind get too strong before I'll get up off my rear and change it. Again, the ultra light head sheets allow this sail to fill when I see all the other head sails on the lake just hanging.
So, who can tell me the difference between these two sails. (other than one being loose luff and one having hanks). I'm looking to improve my sail inventory this coming year. Would a Gennaker be used in similar conditions and points of sail as the drifter Would the Gennaker be more like an asym I want to get an asym soon, but maybe the Gennaker would be a better choice

Also, I saw a blooper that would fit my D boat, I'm thinking about (great price too). I've heard these work very well for ghosting around on those dead days. This is a loose luff head sail, with a fat cut, but is still shaped a lot like a Genny (a really big Genny). This one is also 3/4oz. ripstop. It is used alone, usually (no mainsl) and has a foot length of 21 feet. A head sail that's only 4 feet shorter than the boat?........... Any thoughts

Best Breezes,
Steve K.

[Wind Chime]

by Steve K » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:56 pm
So, who can tell me the difference between these two sails..

Hey Steve,

I think you may have opened a can of worms here ... I love it! I think the definitions may be different depending on the manufacturer, some are different names for similar type sail.

For my purpose, I base the name on shape and funtion. To me, a flatter Genny is a “close or beam reacher”, a more balloony asymmetrical to be more of a "beam or broad reacher", and a symmetrical a "broad reacher or runner".

Our flatter Genny:


Our more balloony Asymmetrical


Our strictly downwind Symmetrical (with pole)

[arknoah]

Inducing a heel works in small dinghy sailing....no reason it would not help a Mac

Perhaps. The author of the article wasn't referring to dinghys, however, and when I've moved to the leeward side when the wind has been light, the heeling seems to increase and I can feel more forward movement. If that isn't the case, I'll just let myself believe it anyway.

[Ixneigh]

I spent an entire day in winds under five knots first with main then with main and jib. The boat seems less directionally stable without ballast. Def needed both rudders.
has anyone actually knocked the yacht down with no ballast? I do know of that tragedy where one capsized with 11 people on it did it turn completely inverted? I was sailing in shallow water figuring the mast would hit the bottom befor it was upside down...
ix

[mastreb]

I spent an entire day in winds under five knots first with main then with main and jib. The boat seems less directionally stable without ballast. Def needed both rudders.
has anyone actually knocked the yacht down with no ballast? I do know of that tragedy where one capsized with 11 people on it did it turn completely inverted? I was sailing in shallow water figuring the mast would hit the bottom befor it was upside down...
ix

If you're talking about the incident in San Diego two years ago, it was a 26 classic (I'm not sure if it was a centerboard or dagger) and it did turn completely inverted. It was unballasted and overloaded, with most of the weight forward and off-center (people sitting along the bow rail). They were sailing Genoa-only when the bow dug in a little on a wave apparently in a gust, and the boat suddenly turtled. The part of San Diego bay they were in is typically dredged to 30 feet, so just barely deeper than the mast.

The operator apparently forgot to ballast the boat. He claimed it was ballasted but the Coast Guard reported the ballast gate was closed and the tank was dry. The two men who died were not wearing PFDs and neither knew how to swim. Everyone else was wearing PFDs.

Roger MacGregor stated that the boat was dramatically overloaded, but that it still would not have rolled over if ballasted.

[BOAT]

The boat never did sink.

[Steve K]

Saw pictures....... it was a D boat, just like mine. One could see the dagger board slot.
Also, either the dagger board was up, or it slid back into the trunk, when the boat turned over.
I forget how many people were on board, but I think it was a dozen or more (crazy). I wouldn't have more than 4 or five on mine. And I prefer to just keep it to me alone.......... or with the Admiral. You're free to move about the cockpit that way.

The boat would not just sit there upside down if the ballast tank were full........ it defies gravity.

Best Breezes,
SK

[Boblee]

No way will I hoist a sail without filling the ballast first, we nearly got bowled by a bullet this year with just a boom tent, it was as close as we have ever come since owning the boat and the apparently has 200lbs of extra lead ballast due to concerns of people not filling the tank, thankfully we wern't underway at the time or we would have gone right over.

[Steve K]

With just a boom tent
I think you would have been surprised. With the big flat sides on the X & M boats, she may have gone over on her side, but not likely any farther, unless there is a lot of weight, up high in the cabin (which would be owner added).

I had a ballast valves on both sides of the stern (added one) on my X. If she laid over I could swim around to the stern and open them (low one to fill the tank and high one to let out air) and just wait.

Possible way to right a Mac in a pinch:
You could jump over the side while holding onto the main halyard and stand on the tip of the daggerboard. This might take a couple people. As with any sailboat, water filled sails will prevent success, so make sure sheets are un-cleated. Hanging all your anchors over the side with you might help too.

Another way to help save the boat (if you have a dingy or inflatable boat, wake tube and/or any number of other things, take it out to the masthead and park it under the tip.

Yep....... all these tips require you to get wet

[Ixneigh]

I have added 350 pounds of lead ballast on either side of the water ballast tank where the daggerboard trunk is. Anyone know if this is enough to prevent a complete inversion?
Ix

[mastreb]

Inversion is not an issue with the M. The factory put enough permanent ballast in to prevent the hull alone from turtleing. The boat can blow down if it's not water ballasted, but it will not remain turtled unless floatation foam has been removed or significant unsecured weight falls onto the cabin roof when inverted, or the anchor falls to full length from the locker and is secured to the forward cleats. That was the purpose of the additional 300 lbs. of permanent ballast that was added.

[yukonbob]

Inducing a heel works in small dinghy sailing....no reason it would not help a Mac

Perhaps. The author of the article wasn't referring to dinghys, however, and when I've moved to the leeward side when the wind has been light, the heeling seems to increase and I can feel more forward movement. If that isn't the case, I'll just let myself believe it anyway.

20-25 degrees is the sweet spot for most of these boats. Inducing heel at low speeds would reduce the surface area on the water without spilling too much wind as encountered in 'higher wind = too much heel' conditions. IMO

No way will I hoist a sail without filling the ballast first, we nearly got bowled by a bullet this year with just a boom tent, it was as close as we have ever come since owning the boat and the apparently has 200lbs of extra lead ballast due to concerns of people not filling the tank, thankfully we wern't underway at the time or we would have gone right over.

A couple of years ago we were heading south and at the start of the day it was glass calm and we were motoring at 8knts so I opened the ballast to get a little more speed and reduce fuel consumption. As the day progressed a light wind picked up so we slowed down raised the sails and reduced the fuel consumption even further (note that under these conditions with the ballast open it will fill even underway as I completely forgot to close it). As things picked up we decided to make better time and motor so back up to 8knt. As we approached at set of narrows the waves picked up (5ftrs) and after four more hours of slamming through the waves (at one point i'm pretty sure the front half of the boat was out of the water) and getting highly annoyed with the waves and the weather in general we made it to a sheltered harbour only to hear the glug glug glug of the unvented ballast filling oops!
On the other hand we were heading to another town south of our home port and with full ballast and motoring at 7.5knt in 20-30knt winds no sails just the rigging aloft and furled head sail we hit 30 degrees and held us there for 5-10 seconds; just from a gust alone.

I think youd really have to try and get most of these boats to lay down ballast or no ballast. On the other hand I wonder what kind of extra added weight would be required to counter the positive foam floatation?