First help, please

[midget]

Thanks all for the replies. I guess the driving factors were pointed out by Pouw and FrankC--- if I screw up my first penetration in my "new" boat (or decide to change later) all I'll have to do is buy a new front hatch cover and then "make another hole" someplace else!!!

[Catigale]

Moe said

It's that current from a solar cell falls off with the cosine of the angle the sun's rays are away from perpendicular to that cell, and that with the cell on the side of the boat, the time it's facing the sun's direction will only be a fraction of the total daylight time.

To add some experience to this: When I was looking to vent Catigale, a 2002 , I worried about what angle the sun would play on the device etc. My notes indicate even in weak sunlight I found the Nicro vent turned under solar power alone, even at 80 degrees angle to the sun!

While waiting for the kids to board the bus this morning, I pulled the battery out of the unit, and at sunup in March at 43 N degrees Latitude it turns happily at 80 degrees angle to the morning sun, confirmed.

If you spend a few more bucks you can get the NICRO solar vent with the NiCd battery, with a couple of hours of charge per day your vent would work fine pretty much mounted at any angle I think.


I eventually went with the Nicro on the top deck, port side of the mast and all is well. Im going to put another one either in the head or front hatch.

[midget]

Well folks,I finally got brave enough yesterday to make my first hole and mount the vent. Imagine my surprise/fear when my trusty new Dremel with hole cutting attachment did it's work and I found that the hatch wasn't just fiberglass, but was two layers of fiberglass with balsa between them!! I'm sure this open balsa surface needed to be sealed with epoxy, but a) I didn't have any or access to any and b) I can barely chew gum much less successfully mix two-part mixtures without either getting it all over the boat and me or having it set up so fast the stirrer sticks to the board or it takes it twelve days to set up!! My solution was to liberally coat the inside of the whole hole (!) with the 5200 I used to bed the vent mounting ring. Do you guys think that'll work or should I take it all back out and start over with epoxy. Thanks in advance for replies---

[Catigale]

Midget - classic case of the value of this board.

If you go to sailing authoritiies, Im sure you will get definitive and authoritative tomes on why all balsa must be Marine epoxied..

Ill confess I didnt even notice the balsa when I did my front hatch hole...I coated the inside of the hole with 5200 like you suggested. Dont worry about it any more and have fun sailing..

How old is your X or M? Could they have eliminated balsa in my 2002 Anyone???

Test of new vent

Yesterday, the Admiral noticed "It doesnt smell like old socks down here anymore" (since I installed the double vents)

For those you who haven't been married for a while, this is a very good thing to hear from the Admiral.

On my last run last fall I pointed up about 30 minutes higher into the wind, which I attribute to the heavier bow from the vent. Blue 5200 sealant probably would have added to hull speed.

[Frank C]

How old is your X or M? Could they have eliminated balsa in my 2002 Anyone???

I wondered about the balsa question when reading earlier in this thread. I cut through my anchor locker hatch, and found it was a balsa sandwich (model 2000, built in July '99). I was not sure if same might be true of the forehatch, but now I'd suspect it for all model-years.

When the factory switched to a foam sandwich for the deck, perhaps they just kept the balsa hatches. Not too surprising, since those parts would be fabbed off-line from the main hull. Besides, seems the balsa would be a lot stronger for the hatch application. Congrats on that first mod

[Moe]

It could be that MacGregor kept balsa in the hatches, but I think Stephen would've noticed it.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that cast foam hatch cores would be cheaper than shaped balsa.

--
Moe

[Jeff S]

I have a solar vent in the forehatch- it works nicely for ventilation. Of course simply opening the hatch works even better . It does get subject to spray and I have even had it submarining through 4-6' waves (tightly spaced)- didn't leak. This was installed by the P.O. - After several years it became brittle and I stepped on it- that combination made it crack. After that it disintegrated. I replaced it with the exact same model (so it wouild fit easily)- a $50 Sunvent that works very well when there is sun- no NiCad storage like the Nicro. I used 4200 and that is what was used succesfully before on the replaced vent. There was no damage to the hatch when I removed the old vent.

If I were to do it from scratch I am not sure if I would put in the forehatch or not. I am pretty used to it there now so I don't notice the lack of foredeck space- plus you can set things on it all day long- just not 200#. Of course it doesn't ventilate well covered. I think the place on deck that would be the least intrusive would be as close to the mast as possible. It would be harder to mount there, but not a trip/space hazard. Mounting in the forehatch is easy though and it does ventilate well. The only area of poor ventilation I have now is the aft berth. Need a fan or portholes back there now.

Jeff S

[Moe]

Imagine my surprise/fear when my trusty new Dremel with hole cutting attachment did it's work and I found that the hatch wasn't just fiberglass, but was two layers of fiberglass with balsa between them!!

I might add something here for future reference. In cutting through the cockpit seats to install the deck plates, I found them to be over an inch thick, with a fiberglass matrix between them. The issue was that the typical 3" long blades on my saber saw weren't long enough to go all the way through and would hang after the upstroke and break. I had to go buy a 4" one. The same thing might apply to using a saber saw for installing a vent.

--
Moe

[Catigale]

Couple of add ons to this thread

but I think Stephen would've noticed it.

Moe, you are too nice....I would like to think I would too, but Ill look at the core when I get home next weekend.

Jeff - I have the stainless steel Nicro on the deck portside of the mast, which stays on except when trailering. I bought the plastic Nicro for the front hatch vent, which comes off for sailing. If the weather is rough or you want the deck space, you put in the block off plate and you get your space back!

I used Day Night Vents for both, with the NiCd cell, as we sleep better with fresh air on board. Swapping the fan blades turn it from an intake to an exhaust. They are really nice on a heavy rainy day when its tough to have any hatches open.

The front hatch is about 5/8 inch thick on my 2002 at the place where I cut it.

[Moe]

Stephen, our stainless Nicro vent survived 1700+ miles at 70-75 mph with long stretches as high as 80-85 mph, so I don't think I'd bother removing it for trailering. Dunno about the plastic one.

--
Moe

[Moe]

Stephen, found something else interesting today. The "foam" that I cut through in cockpit seats, and was going to seal up, isn't structural foam at all.

It's latex foam rubber! Like you'd have in a seat cushion or pillow! It appears it's just laid in there to give something lightweight to lay the wet fiberglass matting something to shape over.

Also found that the stainless screws I bought to install the deck plates are about 3/4" too short.
--
Moe

[Catigale]

Moe - found same with the foam in the Nicro vent mod - its just something to allow the FG to be bent around to support

Well, the 2002 X front hatch IS glass balsa cored, like the old boats....

Clearly seen from the cross section of the hole I cut. The hole saw made this job so easy I didnt even notice it until this thread.

Catigale

[Moe]

Stephen, that's interesting. Thank you. I'm about to install one of those telescoping supports on the front hatch and I'll make sure to seal it up well. Both the balsa and open cell pillow foam would sure soak up water.

--
Moe

[Catigale]

I used lots of 5200 and carefully went around the edge to make sure it seals well. Since the NICRO goes into a plate which I also sealed, Im not too worried about water intrusion.

And, of course, one can replace the hatch if its really an issue I guess. I dont step on the hatch

The Admiral noted how much nicer the boat smells (or doesnt smell) with double vents blowing in 24 hours a day. We pull off the front vent for sailing.

Was out yesterday and with 10 feet of furler we ran up the Hudson North at 5 mph (3 mph sail, 2 mph tide)....great fun.

[ALX357]

I have a real question here..... about drilling and mounting a 3" Nicro vent in the space right behind the hatch, centered in front of the windows...
i know that the inside hole would arrive partially in that double-lip where the liners join, but would that be a problem if not cut thru there, just the 3/4 of a circle in front of it? I could add a couple of vertical 1" holes in the aft side of that lip to make up for the missing part of the circle-hole.
Does anyone know of a sturctural problem that would occur, or any other caveat on this location. ??
It seems a better location, to me, than the hatch... but i am reluctant to drill a 3-3/4 hole without some research on that location.
ALSO , after re-reading this thread, i still haven't heard whether a Nicro Day-Night vent will shed rain and spray if mounted almost vertical. I believe BWY told me that that they regularly install those vents in the window plexi in the head. I would consider putting one in directly over the "bulkhead" wall between the dinette and head, in the window, and letting it vent both head and cabin. Would have to dremel-cut a bit of the wall at the back of the vent to allow it to intrude there, but that would be no problem for structure; nor privacy, as it would be filled with the vent.
Seems a good way to keep from wasting the vent on the head only, when it could handle more area.