The actual odds of being hit by lightning

[Herschel]

For Android : https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... .radarcast

Be sure to turn on the lightning layer.

Great. Thanks. Got it. Turn on the lightning layer, but no action close by. I am sure by tomorrow afternoon, here in Central Florida, we'll see how this functions during a lightning storm. Really appreciate the tip. Still feeling my through the "app" world!

[Catigale]

I'd love to see if the Mythbusters could test it somehow.

You can just ask Rich here, who grounds towers for a living ....

[walt]

I think the consensus on this forum has been that you either should do a very good job bonding or nothing at all and the reason being that any sort of bonding at all would increase your risk of taking a strike. If you do something inadequate but it increases you chance of getting a strike, you were better doing nothing at all.

I am own a Mac 26S and so get to vote on the consensus and dont agree with this, good to see others also. I think that adding any sort of “ground” between the mast and the water has a negligible effect on the boat taking a strike. Would anyone care to provide either a reason or some information or .. to support that adding any sort of ground between the mast and the water will influence a strike at all. It would seem that since you need a ground to get your boat lights to work, lighting might be the same.. but it’s “slightly” more complicated.

So what or where is the evidence that “grounding” a sailboat to the water will invite a strike?

There is a professional lightning forum that requires you to list your credentials to post and it seems that two moderators here are the experts. Hammin and Catigale, if you guys are the experts, would you mind letting us know why? Credentials? I think most advice for sailboats doesn’t really matter much but when advice is dangerous, it does matter and the only dangerous advice I have really heard was from this forum where someone putting up amateur ham radio towers was NOT grounding them. Doing this is somewhat similar to what Ben Franklin did with a kite. If the tower gets struck and its not grounded, a lot of the energy will follow the RF coax cable to whoever is on the other end..

Discussion here on lightning tend to get derailed by the moderators but hopefully this one goes on a little bit. I really am curious if there is ANY credible information saying that adding any grounding increases the chance for a strike. All I have ever seen are amateur theories…

[Hamin' X]

I'd love to see if the Mythbusters could test it somehow.

You can just ask Rich here, who grounds towers for a living ....

Used to in a former life. I've given up giving advice about lightning avoidance/protection, as you have probably noticed by my silence. Too many "experts" out there; some of which actually write books and columns, or sell products that mislead boaters and other folks.

My views on the subject have been well stated in other topics and are available for reading by using the advanced search function; particularly here: http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... 65#p188843

As you can see, Walt has a horse in this race. And, being a moderator of this forum, I don't appreciate the comment about derailing the discussion, but will not rise any further to the bait.

On Walt's website, I invite everyone to read carefully and pay attention the wording used. An example that pops up is: "The claims of being able to dissipate any and all lightning strokes have been shown to be untrue." There is no know way to protect a tower, or mobile object from "any and all lightning". Anyone making this claim is a charlatan. Time and again, the negatives cited against dissipators were using grounding systems in addition to, or in conjunction with the dissipator. Both are self defeating courses.

Everyone is going to do what they want and as long as they don't get struck, the human mind will go with the empirical evidence. I'll leave this discussion to follow it's natural course, without moderator interference.

Oh, one last comment. "Lighting always strikes the highest object" I'll let you draw your own conclusion, I have to go load some hay.



~Rich

[walt]

On Walt's website, I invite everyone to read carefully and pay attention the wording used. An example that pops up is: "The claims of being able to dissipate any and all lightning strokes have been shown to be untrue." There is no know way to protect a tower, or mobile object from "any and all lightning". Anyone making this claim is a charlatan. Time and again, the negatives cited against dissipators were using grounding systems in addition to, or in conjunction with the dissipator. Both are self defeating courses.

Actually that is Dr. Ewen Thomsons web site, not mine. Dr. Thomson is the expert I trust however.

I used to have a commercial interest in this (this is my web site http://zenpole.com/ I recently sold the patent for this idea to Dr. Thomson after years of working on it as I nether want or am equipped to handle the liability issue. No commercial interest in the slightest now but I still use the product and think it reduces my chances of boat damage or someone getting injured who is on the boat. It does nothing to protect electronics.

The question about any info at all regarding does any sort of grounding from a mast to the water influence odds of getting hit looks like it may not get answered. Of course having a mast vertically placed in a strong elecric field does increase your odds of getting hit. But does grounding it to the water change anything?

FYI, the only time I have heard of a sailboat lightning fatalalty happened to be related to a water ballast Mac - but the person who was killed was waist deep in the water going from the ladder of the beached boat to the shore.

[Herschel]

I realize that the major discussion on this thread has turned toward whether or not to ground your boat to minimize lightning damage. My approach, living in Central Florida, is to focus mostly on avoiding personal injury by not being around the boat when there is a thunder storm. I leave my boat in a marina on a lake. What happens to it while it sits there unattended is, of course, important, but is not nearly as important to me as the personal injury issue. I have the boat insured. If it sustains a damaging strike while I am not there, I will deal with it. Won't be fun, but I suspect it will be like dealing with a car after a collision. Alot of paperwork, phone calls, angst about repairs/replacement, etc. My focus is on safe boating and avoiding thunder storms. My strategy is to make the October to May period my primary sailing/boating season. (It is the summer heat that develops the almost daily thunderstorms here). I do venture out during the summer occasionally, but only when the weather suggests a low probability of thunder storms, usually 30% or less, and I watch the radar on my phone app carefully, if I see anything developing. In light of this strategy, I am delighted to get the new app mentioned in the original BoatUS/Seaworthy article. Now, I can get the radar picture with identified recent lightning strikes clearly indicated. That seems to be a major improvement in the avoidance strategy. I used it today for the first time just to monitor the lightning around my house. I was able to see the location of strikes just 3-4 miles away that I would have been unaware of without the app. Pretty amazing. I look forward to having this app the next time I go boating and start to see storm clouds forming.

[Herschel]

I am a little confused about this new app that is suppose to show relatively current lightning strikes. During the afternoon thunder storm here in Central Florida today at my house, there were over a dozen peels of thunder and rain right off the bat, yet no lightning symbols showed up on my phone app for several minutes afterward. I did not time how long it took for them to show up on the plot; I got sidetracked with the evening news. When I checked my display again about 30 minutes later there were a "gazillion" lightning strike symbols all over my phone display. But, my own observations of the weather and deteriorating conditions would have brought me in from boating sooner than any lightning symbols showed up on my phone. Surely, with all the commercial aviation around me (Orlando International Airport), NOAA has real time data on lightning. Has anyone tried to use the app underway to see if it is "real time" enough to actually help us while we are out there?

[Hamin' X]

I think that the app only reports ground strikes, so perhaps what you were hearing was cloud-to-cloud lightning? Don't know about recency, as I have not had a thunderstorm since I installed it.

~Rich

[seahouse]

While not an exclusive source of real-time strike data, aircraft (even smaller ones can be) are equipped with lightning detection equipment that is self-contained within the plane, so they can more easily navigate around it.

For a few thousand $ one can be yours. Here's an example of one such product, highly-rated, from our successful local aerospace industry...

http://www.insightavionics.com/strikefinder.htm

-B.

[Hamin' X]

Strike finder/Stormscope is on my wish list, right after ADS-B compliance.

~Rich

[seahouse]

Strike finder/Stormscope is on my wish list, right after ADS-B compliance.

~Rich

Yeah, ADS-B deployment. Aeronautics technology is flying right along. Very impressive.

The inventor/manufacturer of the Strikefinder is a family acquaintance. I believe he was also the inventor of the first aircraft graphic engine monitor; a few of our local club's planes have them. Both are potentially life-saving devices.

[Catigale]

Disclaimer...I'm pretty good at getting my hands around research on an issue but I have no credentials or training in lightning other than being on campus at the same time done physics courses were being taught, so I am not an expert.

Lightening , on the other hand, I have successfully instituted by ditching soda pop from my diet.

On edit...lightning has been added to the classic list of popcorn threads: oil viscosity, oil change intervals, sex, politics religion ...

If Muhammhed puts Mobil one on a fram filter for 'lubrication every 40 days/nights, will God make lightning strike him or the filter can?

What evidence would convince him he is wrong?

[Tomfoolery]

Lightening , on the other hand, I have successfully instituted by ditching soda pop from my diet.

On edit...lightning has been added to the classic list of popcorn threads: oil viscosity, oil change intervals, sex, politics religion ...

If Muhammhed puts Mobil one on a fram filter for 'lubrication every 40 days/nights, will God make lightning strike him or the filter can?

What evidence would convince him he is wrong?

Well, don't stop now. You're on a roll.

[Herschel]

think that the app only reports ground strikes, so perhaps what you were hearing was cloud-to-cloud lightning? Don't know about recency, as I have not had a thunderstorm since I installed it.

and

While not an exclusive source of real-time strike data, aircraft (even smaller ones can be) are equipped with lightning detection equipment that is self-contained within the plane, so they can more easily navigate around it.

Thanks for the feedback. I was wondering about the ground strike vs cloud to cloud myself, but the website for the A/C Strikefinder seemed to indicate that it could do both, and I guess it would have to for it to be useful to planes and at the speeds and altitudes they travel. I will watch the app as today's thunderstorms start moving in, which they are doing currently. This morning when I woke up, I looked at my phone lightening app and all the symbols from the day before were still displayed. It was totally sunny outside. I touched the little pin symbol in the upper right corner, and it refreshed the display to current, and all the symbols went away. Hopefully, as I learn my way around the app, I will discover that it is sending relatively current real time data. It certainly looks like the technology exists. i would hope that the data NOAA is supplying to the app makers would include that level of accuracy.

[Herschel]

Lightening , on the other hand, I have successfully instituted by ditching soda pop from my diet.

On edit...lightning has been added to the classic list of popcorn threads: oil viscosity, oil change intervals, sex, politics religion ...

If Muhammhed puts Mobil one on a fram filter for 'lubrication every 40 days/nights, will God make lightning strike him or the filter can?

What evidence would convince him he is wrong?]

I noticed this post was at 3:09 AM. Sounds like a tough night!