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Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:13 am
by mrron_tx
kadet wrote:If all else fails soak it in a solution of Sodium Hydroxide (caustic soda/lye) it will dissolve the aluminium and leave the stainless steel intact. Caution the reaction produces hydrogen and some nasty caustic steam do it outside in a well ventilated place away from any source of ignition.
Now that's getting serious
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:47 pm
by tbowers
Pics as someone suggested:
Note this is after I dipped the broken off end in a bowl of coca cola as a mild acid in the hope it'd dissolve any oxidation.
Looking down into the spreader mount with broken aluminum tube inside; the aluminum tube is virtually welded to the outer stainless steel
The other unbroken spreader tube still in the mount; don't know if you can see but again it almost looks like the aluminum and st. steel metals are fused together. There is no slop it will not wobble. It's tight. The bolt there is loose as you can see the nut is loosed to the end. The bolt does slide and is removable with the hand.
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:53 pm
by NiceAft
It's time to contact BWY and purchase what you need. You have given it the college try, now it's time to give it the heave ho
Unless of course you enjoy the effort, but I am sure there are other projects that also need your attention, after all, we are posting about a boat
Ray
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:29 pm
by tbowers
You read my mind :/ Was on the BWY site an hour ago - new stainless steel 'spreader socket' is $155. I already have replacement spreaders the PO bought so don't need those.
Maybe this alone is why he sold the boat
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:44 pm
by Russ
kmclemore wrote:Applying heat will likely not work as the aluminum will not only heat up faster than the stainless steel, but it will also expand at a faster rate, such that with the application of heat it will simply make the joint more tight, not less.
Cold might work a bit, but only if it is extreme cold and applied rapidly - i.e. a cold spray applied inside the aluminum. I fear this will be difficult to accomplish effectively, though.
So... my suggestion is to use a carbide Dremel bit, working slowly and carefully but with the bit at a high speed, cut a slot inside the aluminum just to where it contacts the stainless. Once you've got the slot cut in the full depth of the aluminum, use a sharp cold chisel to tap the seam in between the aluminum and the stainless, starting at the slot and working your way around, essentially crushing the aluminum a wee bit such that it can then be pulled out.
When it comes to stuff like this, I always respect what Kevin suggests. This is no exception.
--Russ
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:13 pm
by RobertB
After looking a the pictures, there is such serious corrosion, even of you can get the spreader tubes out, the inside of the mount is likely to be a mess. The spreader mount is $155 and spreaders with the tops are $30 each. Consider the Dremel bits are at least $10 each, they will likely clog up since you are grinding aluminium, and likely break since you have several inches to grind (and likely will need a flex shaft Dremel to get the bit in far enough), the relatively low cost of replacement parts will save a bunch of frustration.
Me, I would probably be real stubborn, get everything apart, see how bad the parts are and buy everything new anyhow.
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:16 pm
by Tomfoolery
RobertB wrote:Me, I would probably be real stubborn, get everything apart, see how bad the parts are and buy everything new anyhow.
That's what I'd do, but I'd carefully cut a few slits in the aluminium with a hacksaw blade and lift them to release the hoop (or is it arch) effect. The SS may only need a polishing after that. But nothing to lose by getting the aluminium out, since the worst case scenario is to replace it all anyway.
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:21 pm
by mrron_tx
Those look like they were swet/soldered in
Your doing good to order a new one
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:29 pm
by yukonbob
tbowers wrote:
Just looking at your pics, you might be good to order a set of shrouds as well. Looks like theres a fair amount of rust in that cable in the background. If theres rust mid cable you should give a real close inspection on your fittings (it can be twice as bad inside them). I'd hate to see you have to order a mast to top it off
. Check you forestay while you're at it just to be safe. If they look like that I'd be replacing them. $55 for ea upper and lower shrouds and I think $40 for the forestay (from what I remember) cheap insurance.
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:57 am
by Ixneigh
I'd wrap that SS piece in a towel, clamp it tight in a vice and chip out the aluminum with a small cold chisle. Or even an old wood chisle. A dull one. Thin crppy aluminum actually chisles pretty easy. Do not use a sharp one or you may score the SS. Insert the chisle between the SS and aluminum and carefully separate. Don't just pound the crp out of it. But work patiently with eye to the SS.
The Dremel idea is also good of course perhaps better however reaching deep into something may be difficult and require (way) more patience then ixneigh possesses
Good luck.
Ix
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:56 am
by NiceAft
Ixneigh wrote:I'd wrap that SS piece in a towel, clamp it tight in a vice and chip out the aluminum with a small cold chisle. Or even an old wood chisle. A dull one. Thin crppy aluminum actually chisles pretty easy. Do not use a sharp one or you may score the SS. Insert the chisle between the SS and aluminum and carefully separate. Don't just pound the crp out of it. But work patiently with eye to the SS.
The Dremel idea is also good of course perhaps better however reaching deep into something may be difficult and require (way) more patience then ixneigh possesses
Good luck.
Ix
Your post contains more patience than I possess
I would have been on the phone with BWY long ago.
Acid's, chissels, cold packs, Dremel's, Coca Cola, & prayers to the almighty along with a few swear words I'll bet
. He (tbowers)
Bit The Bullet,
Tossed In The Towel,
Said His Last Hoorah. Enough was enough, he bought new parts. Now he can address other boating problems
He might even be able to sail instead of being on the Mac site
Here in Philly, it's still not quite the time, so I read these posts instead
Ray
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:59 am
by yukonbob
My only suggestion other than just ordering a new one would be to take it to a machine shop and see if they could drill it out for you; BUT that might cost as much as a new one and theres no guarantee it would work 100%.
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:07 am
by tbowers
> take it to a machine shop and see if they could drill it out for you; BUT that might cost as much as a new one and theres no guarantee it would work
I had that thought but came to the same conclusion, a good day wasted and it still may not work.
> Those look like they were swet/soldered
You know that NEVER crossed my mind but you're right. Now i think it is. I spent yesterday dremeling, hacksawing, and trying to pry a screwdriver blade bt the ss and aluminum and it can't be just corrosion bonded... it's like a weld. Lots of sweat and cursing.
IDK why i didn't think of it but now I'm almost certain the PO soldered the aluminum in. No wonder it broke, probably as he laid the mast down
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:15 am
by tbowers
> you might be good to order a set of shrouds as well
I was checking those out. No broken strands and they look good but yes with a light rust coating in places. If I get new ones how long do you guys experience they get like this? Does everyone usually replace if they get rust? I'd think that means all of you are replacing the shrouds every 2 or 3 years or so?
Re: Getting broken aluminum tube out of stainless sleeve
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:23 am
by NiceAft
tbowers wrote:> you might be good to order a set of shrouds as well
I was checking those out. No broken strands and they look good but yes with a light rust coating in places. If I get new ones how long do you guys experience they get like this? Does everyone usually replace if they get rust? I'd think that means all of you are replacing the shrouds every 2 or 3 years or so?
Do you sail in fresh, salt, or both?
Over the ten seasons I have owned Nice Aft (this will be eleven), I have never replaced the shrouds. Of course I have only had her in saltwater twice. I do have a spare set I ordered a few years ago for “just in case.” I figured they don't go bad if not in a saltwater environment; at least mine did'nt.
Ray