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mjgill1 wrote:I ended up getting the BWY sails that I was looking at. I couldn't be happier! The boat is completely different in how she sails. Much better in every metric. I can't say enough about how much better the boat is and would highly recommend them to anyone.

Thanks for getting back. Enjoy the new sails, and the new sailing.

Ray
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BOAT,

I'm not trying to elongate this thread, but I know whom I'm addressing, so here goes.....I have a muscle head sail on my ,for years now, and I definitely heel farther at lower wind speeds then I did with the original, traditional, Doyle sail. When the wind picks up, the main-sheet stays in my hand.

Ray

NiceAft wrote:

mjgill1 wrote:I ended up getting the BWY sails that I was looking at. I couldn't be happier! The boat is completely different in how she sails. Much better in every metric. I can't say enough about how much better the boat is and would highly recommend them to anyone.

Thanks for getting back. Enjoy the new sails, and the new sailing.

Ray
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BOAT,

I'm not trying to elongate this thread, but I know whom I'm addressing, so here goes.....I have a muscle head sail on my ,for years now, and I definitely heel farther at lower wind speeds then I did with the original, traditional, Doyle sail. When the wind picks up, the main-sheet stays in my hand.

Ray

That's why I said: "if your trying to reduce heeling I would not recommend a muscle head sail."

You have confirmed that the muscle head sail adds more heel.

Again, I personally do not recommend the muscle head sails on tall rigs like the M boat.

Boat,

I must have been hallucinating. Yes, that is what you said.

The reason I bought the musclehead is because where I sailed at the time was the Delaware River. The wind was always low, and the sail was perfect.

In higher wind environments the sail is a disadvantage, but more fun. You really have to be on all the time, and your sailing techniques are honed.

When it comes time to replace the musclehead, I will probably not do it again, but I am glad I had the experience.

Ray

That sail should have been hung on a shorter mast. It might still offer better performance.
Ix

Ixneigh wrote:That sail should have been hung on a shorter mast. It might still offer better performance.
Ix

Obviously.

We learn from our mistakes.

When the time comes, I will offer it to whomever wants it, but we’re not there yet.

Ray

No no guys, niceaft was completely correct in his choice - the muscled (or square top) sail was specifically DESIGNED for use on rivers.

One of the biggest problems riverboat captains complained about when sailing rivers was that all the good wind was way up high because all the vegetation and trees that always grow along the banks of rivers would deflect the wind up and over the top of the river water. The square head sail was designed to catch the good wind that was way up high because the trees deflected all the wind that was near the surface of the water.

The square top sail is still a favorite of river boat captains and in China where sailboats need to sail on rivers to get to all the ports like Halong Bay they still to this day prefer the gaff rigged fully battened square top sail.



The Chinese perfected the square top because captains of heavy loaded boats trying to move cargo up the many rivers in China needed a way to get to the good wind that was up high. Just like on the junk rig (actually, for us European sailors it's a lugsail) you get the best performance with a heavy boat that sails upright like a sampan. Us guys here are all European sailor - we only know the Italian Marconi rig or the square riggers of Britain, Spain, or Portugal , but in the rest of the world where the eastern people live they ply a lot more rivers because they have the Nile, and the Ganges similar waterways so gaffed rigs and lugsails are very popular. Gaffed rigs moved the stones that built the pyramids:



You might say we westerner sailors are "ethno-centric" when it comes to sails. (That's why we say "I like the cut of his sail" - sail choice can reveal your culture).

That sail should have been hung on a shorter mast. It might still offer better performance.

I always felt the mainsail aspect ratio was off on the resulting in the heel and weatherhelm people talk about. Too much foot for the leach on a shallow cut triangular sail.

A smaller dimensioned fuller cut sail has more overall sail area and more efficient go power.


Windsurfing you can instantly feel the difference in cuts.

They started like this (traditionally shaped) where staying upright and just moving in the direction you intended was a feat


And are now shaped like this turning it into an entirely different sport:

It's the Mylar sails that I really like - 30% lighter and just as strong - I am seriously considering getting a Mylar genoa for boat this winter - I definitely want to do the genoa in Mylar next time.

Blue Water Yachts is having a sale right now on their Mylar/Mylar jib. Like $600.00 I think. That's a really good deal!

That is a good deal - I am budgeting about a thousand buck to get a Mylar genoa - and that would be a good price too for a 170 like I have now. (Although I might not be able to find one that cheap - it will probably be closer to 1200-1300 bucks!)

BOAT wrote:That is a good deal - I am budgeting about a thousand buck to get a Mylar genoa - and that would be a good price too for a 170 like I have now. (Although I might not be able to find one that cheap - it will probably be closer to 1200-1300 bucks!)

Mark have u thought about gettin a Drifter cut similar to a Genoa but alot bigger & lighter I have one made from Challenger 3/4oz cloth on a profurl top/down furler
http://www.profurl.com/popup_video.php? ... eurvid=385
These r nice Drifter,s
https://www.google.ca/search?q=drifter+ ... 7I4WjWwgzM:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=drifter+ ... zFSaI3ipDM:

J

when I was looking at new sails I tossed around the idea of Mylar but just couldnt justify the cost over Dacron.

Mylar will hold its shape better BUT dont last near as long as Dacron, the fibers in the Mylar break weakening the sail over time.

If you have a good quality Dacron sail, if and when it stretches you can get it recut, I dont think they can do anything to fix broken fibers in Mylar.

Anyway all that is old technology now, 3D sails are all the rage and the theory behind them seems very sound

For those (like me) who had no idea what a “Drifter” is, here is a site with enough simply explained details to bring you up to speed.

Ray

http://www.sailingtotem.com/2014/07/the ... ising.html

The Mylar sail is used just like a regular sail - it can be furled. the whole bit. The only deal with a Mylar sail is that you use a sock instead of sewing shade to it. Mylar will last LONGER than Dacron or other sail material - the Dacron will blow out and stretch sooner than Mylar. The Mylar sail works well in heavy wind, so it's not really like a drifter or a spinnaker drifter (or geneker drifter or whatever they are calling them these days).

Having a furling spinnaker like the PROFURL is the only way to go - all the really good kite systems require a bow sprit which I do not have. I have considered putting one on the boat that slides back into the bow into the anchor locker. I have not figured out all the engineering for that yet. I like the furling kites because you can haul them up when your need them and they are easy to store.

There is a good chance that by the time I finally choose a kite it will be one that is on a PROFURL and a sprit.

Hey all,

I just saw this thread pop up and thought I'd drop in, as there was some talk of our mylar sails. We are running a promo right now for the 100% 26X/26M 100% mylar jibs, bringing the cost down to $750. We really recommend having a canvas sock-type cover for the mylars to give them the longest life possible.

Many of our dacron sails have gone up a bit in price (just this last week) as per a raw material cost increase at Doyle. I imagine this will have kind of a ripple effect across the board for all Doyle-sourced sail options. What we have in stock we are still offering at "the old price", so now is not a bad time to look into them. For any 26C owners that might be reading...hold out til the end of the week, our first Black Friday sale will have some awesome deals on a limited number of 100% jibs.
Whoops! That was supposed to be a secret

And as always, feel free to contact us if you have questions,
Thanks,
Ezra
BWYachts