Do the loop in a Mac?

A forum for discussing topics relating to MacGregor Powersailor Sailboats
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Chinook
Admiral
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Re: considering it

Post by Chinook »

Night Sailor wrote:The Great Loop trip sounds like fun, especially being joined occasionallly but other Mac owners. But I'm also thinking of doing the Great Northwest Inland Passage to Alaska. That is absolutely gorgeous country, if challenging sailing. Convincing the Admiral to leave the grandchildren and go along on either might take great persuasion. Then again, she's mentioned it would be great to sail the Maine coast. Ah, so much water, so little time!
Hi Night Sailor,

You're so right. Know what you mean about being separated from grandkids. It is cool, though, to call them up from some remote anchorage via cell phone, which we've done on a couple occasions. We spent a great week in September, 2004 along the coast of Maine. We put in at Southwest Harbor in the vicinity of Acadia National Park and cruised south a ways, down to Stoningham on Deer Isle. Beautiful scenery, but talk about the lobster trap slalom. You really have to dodge those floats. Highlight was sailing alongside a windjammer schooner, sharing an anchorage with same, and being invited aboard for tea and cake one evening.

The Inside Passage is closer to our permanent home in Washington State, and we explored those waters last summer. Website tells the story: http://chinook.home.dyndns.org
Give it a look. The cruising was excellent. Not the best for sailing, since the channels are generally narrow, currents are strong, and wind is often non existant or on the nose. When sailing downwind, you have to be on your toes, since side canyons make for sudden shifts. We sailed the jib usually, with a whisker pole set. Had a bad jybe of the main once, while going wing on wing. I'll have a preventer rigged next time.

Hope you make it to both Maine and Alaska.

Happy sailing, Mike Cecka
maddmike
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Suggested Trip

Post by maddmike »

Chinook,

Here's an idea for a trip you might find interesting, given you experience with the MAC; Trailer to Hay River on Great Slave Lake, NWT. take the Mackenzie River from Hay River (down stream) to Inuvik, ship your car and trailer on the barge that runs from Hay River to Inuvik, then once you get there and are ready to head home, load up the boat and come back on the Dempster HWY, via Whitehorse. I found the Mackenzie to be as much fun, often safer, and in many ways as interesting as the Inside Passage trip (Sans Salt Rapids & the Ramparts are AMAZING!). Although my trip was up river, I did some years back take an old airstream on the Dempster and loved it. MM
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Chinook
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Re: Suggested Trip

Post by Chinook »

maddmike wrote:Chinook,

Here's an idea for a trip you might find interesting, given you experience with the MAC; Trailer to Hay River on Great Slave Lake, NWT. take the Mackenzie River from Hay River (down stream) to Inuvik, ship your car and trailer on the barge that runs from Hay River to Inuvik, then once you get there and are ready to head home, load up the boat and come back on the Dempster HWY, via Whitehorse. I found the Mackenzie to be as much fun, often safer, and in many ways as interesting as the Inside Passage trip (Sans Salt Rapids & the Ramparts are AMAZING!). Although my trip was up river, I did some years back take an old airstream on the Dempster and loved it. MM
Hi maddmike,

Your trip suggestion sounds intriguing. I checked it out on the map and would love to give it a try. I'd be interested in a description of the rapids, and how difficult they are to run in a Mac. I've done a bit of whitewater canoeing, so have the feel of river water, but other than tidal rapids, have no other experience. Also, I'm wondering what you did for charts. Did you use Canadian topo maps? What were the winds like, and how was the anchoring situation? Usual questions. Hope to hear back from you.

We have a good trip in mind for this summer. We're heading to interior BC, to an inland lake in Tweedsmuir Provincial Park. It's a rather unique place, and requires a portage. I'm intrigued by the thought of portaging our MacGregor. The portage consists of a set of rails that extend into two lakes and cross an isthmus in between. A flatbed trailer on rail wheels is run down the rails into the water, the boat is secured to the trailer, and then the affair is winched out of water. You push across to the next lake and launch. It looks like spectacular country.

Happy sailing, Mike and Sandy Cecka
maddmike
First Officer
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Mackenzie Trip

Post by maddmike »

Chinook,

There are River charts available for the Mackenzie and 2 CCG flat bottom ice rated buoy tenders the Dumat & Eckiloo (sp?) work the river putting in and tending fast water channel markers in the summer (current can get to 10 knots in places). There are also range markers on most of the bends in the river. The only other traffic you will likely see are barges & locals in Lunds. The charts are 'strip' type that the local 'coasties' tape together and place on two rollers (I used paint rollers), then as they transit the river they simply 'roll' the charts to follow along. There are three rapids that are well marked and simple to navigate, but you MUST stay in the marked channel. Towns are few and far between and rarely visited. Often the river will cut through a bend and you will be drifting along with a group of trees that will start falling down. Anchor at night in side channels to avoid getting hit by trees at night. Lots of wildlife (I had a Grizzly swim into the side of my boat & once picked up a local kid who had drifted away from a village in a Lund). Side trips are many and include the Liard River (don't try to run up Beaver Falls rapid, I did & it was stupid). Arctic Red River is very nice. You'll have 24 hrs. daylight after awhile so you can drift with the current whenever you want. Be sure to take a fishing pole and fish the 'cloud line' on the West bank for Northern Pike. Also, consider setting up your boat with a set of oars. The river is as wide as the Mississippi in places and you will often be able to sail. Watch out for 'microbursts'. I've had rocks hit my boat 300 yards off-shore. Bugs are not bad if you remember to anchor out and don't go to shore between 4-10 pm. Any help I can provide feel free to ask. By the way there is a similar portage to the one your planning on the Del Dios River off the Amazon that was set-up by the Rubber Plantation folks, uses a small diesel 'Mule' engine to get you around the rapids. MM
LOUIS B HOLUB
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Post by LOUIS B HOLUB »

Mike & Sandy Cecka...We liked the travels and beautiful pics shown at your site: http://chinook.home.dyndns.org You made some nice family memories. I liked the incident when the humpback whale surfaced right in front of your MacGregor. That was something indeed :!:
It's a well written series of events, accompanied by real nice pics.
Thanks !
The Holub Boat
:macx:
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Chip Hindes
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Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu

Post by Chip Hindes »

Chinook wrote:What I didn't realize at the time was that I had damaged the brakes as well, and we completed the trip with nonfunctional brakes.
Note that would have happened if you had retained the original single axle as well.

I've always advocated that, if you spend the bucks to upgrade to a second axle, spend the extra $300 for four wheel brakes. I did.

Even then though, unless you're allowing the tow vehicle to freewheel, whether you're braiking with the actual brakes or only engine braking, the surge brakes will drag. On any steep downgrade where braking of any type is taking place, it's wise to stop periodically and allow the brakes to cool.

Two years ago on the downgrade into Ithaca on Lake Cayuga (upstate NY) I didn't do this and came close to burning out all four of my disc brakes. And that downgrade is a whole lot less than 8 mi at 9%. The truck brakes got pretty hot as well.
Frank C

Post by Frank C »

After reading here about brakes dragging on a grade, several options come to mind.

1. Chip's comment, obvious & conservative, stop every couple of miles.
2. Assuming a beefy tow vehicle, pin the surge slider to lock-out the trailer brakes
(gear-down and go that much slower).
2a. I suppose one could rig a switch into the electric back-up circuit & just flip a switch.
3. Electric-over-hydraulic brake control system.
(three-quarters of a BoatBuck over your other trailer upgrades ~~!)
:o
BRAKERITE EHB - ELECTRIC OVER HYDRAULIC BRAKE CONTROLLER
From Titan/DICO available for both drum brakes (850psi) or disc brakes (1500psi) max. It converts the electrical output from your cab mounted brake controller to a hydraulic controller for the trailer drum or disc brakes. Brake pressure levels are controlled from the controller mounted in the truck cab. High volume 75 cu. inch/minute gives fast response and short stopping distance.
Image
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Chip Hindes
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Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu

Post by Chip Hindes »

Unless you're running a true behemoth of a tow vehicle, locking out the trailer brakes by any method, so they don't work on a downgrade is the functional equivalent of drilling a hole in the bottom of your boat to let the bilge water out.

The electric over hydraulic would be acceptable, 'cause you could let the tow vehicle engine do most of the braking, but the brakes would still be there and functional if you needed them.

On the other hand, though the pressure is controlled from the cab (just like any electric brake system) the actuator has to be mounted on the trailer, subject to being dunked. And without doing a complete investigation, I will still wager these things consume some serious amps, particularly with disc brakes which are not self actuating.
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Chinook
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Re: Mackenzie Trip

Post by Chinook »

maddmike wrote:Chinook,

There are River charts available for the Mackenzie and 2 CCG flat bottom ice rated buoy tenders the Dumat & Eckiloo (sp?) work the river putting in and tending fast water channel markers in the summer (current can get to 10 knots in places). There are also range markers on most of the bends in the river. The only other traffic you will likely see are barges & locals in Lunds. The charts are 'strip' type that the local 'coasties' tape together and place on two rollers (I used paint rollers), then as they transit the river they simply 'roll' the charts to follow along. There are three rapids that are well marked and simple to navigate, but you MUST stay in the marked channel. Towns are few and far between and rarely visited. Often the river will cut through a bend and you will be drifting along with a group of trees that will start falling down. Anchor at night in side channels to avoid getting hit by trees at night. Lots of wildlife (I had a Grizzly swim into the side of my boat & once picked up a local kid who had drifted away from a village in a Lund). Side trips are many and include the Liard River (don't try to run up Beaver Falls rapid, I did & it was stupid). Arctic Red River is very nice. You'll have 24 hrs. daylight after awhile so you can drift with the current whenever you want. Be sure to take a fishing pole and fish the 'cloud line' on the West bank for Northern Pike. Also, consider setting up your boat with a set of oars. The river is as wide as the Mississippi in places and you will often be able to sail. Watch out for 'microbursts'. I've had rocks hit my boat 300 yards off-shore. Bugs are not bad if you remember to anchor out and don't go to shore between 4-10 pm. Any help I can provide feel free to ask. By the way there is a similar portage to the one your planning on the Del Dios River off the Amazon that was set-up by the Rubber Plantation folks, uses a small diesel 'Mule' engine to get you around the rapids. MM
Hi maddmike,

Thanks for the great info. This trip really sounds enticing. I really liked the idea for setting up long strip charts. A few answers generates a hunger for more. Your comment about rowing suggests that fuel isn't readily available, and one shouldn't count on running the motor much. I've never thought about rowing a Mac. We did have to tow by rowing our dinghy to reach centerboard depth on Southeast Arm of Yellowstone Lake (motorless area). Were you just using oars for steering, or were you actually propelling? How long are your oars, and where did you position oar locks? Clearances for such an arrangement would seem challenging. I'm also curious about barging costs from Hay River to Inuvik. I wonder if the river connecting with Great Bear Lake is navigable.

Regarding the hand car portage in Tweedsmuir, I'm told that they have a hand winch system, and some folks use a chain saw winch. It's supposed to be possible to hand portage a boat with 4 hours of hard work. Alternatively, the BC Parks guy can do it all in 10 minutes, using a 4 wheeler ATV for propulsion. He charges $50 each way for this service.

One last question: Do you have a website and/or photos of your adventures? And, if you ever wander out to Washington State, I'd love to hook up with you.

Happy sailing, Mike Cecka
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Chinook
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Post by Chinook »

LOUIS B HOLUB wrote:Mike & Sandy Cecka...We liked the travels and beautiful pics shown at your site: http://chinook.home.dyndns.org You made some nice family memories. I liked the incident when the humpback whale surfaced right in front of your MacGregor. That was something indeed :!:
It's a well written series of events, accompanied by real nice pics.
Thanks !
The Holub Boat
:macx:
Hi Louis,

Thanks for the kind words.

Mike Cecka
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Tahoe Jack
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Location: Lake Tahoe Nevada 2001 26X Evin/Suz 50..'Octopus'...

Do Loop in Mac

Post by Tahoe Jack »

Hey ....I strongly recommend reading Chinook's excellent Alaskan trip diary! See his link earlier in this thread. Very interesting and well written. :) Sure would be interested in some of your gear choices....e.g. number and sizes of fuel tanks, water system, GPS preferences, etc. Ground gear...e.g. how much chain. Also, how effective is your 3.5hp kicker as a get-to-port solo power source...what speed, will it handle a bit of wind or rougher water, etc. :?: Jack
maddmike
First Officer
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:47 pm

Mackenzir River Info.

Post by maddmike »

Chinook,

Your questions in order:
(1) If you scan through the Zeno's Arrow thread or look up Bill at boats-4-sale's info. under Modifications, most of your questions on oars are covered.
(2) Fuel is usually available (but expensive) on the Mackenzie at the following settlements; Ft. Hope, Ft. Simpson, Wrigley, Norman Wells (say Hi for me), Ft. Hope, Arctic Red River and Inuvik (sometimes Tuktuyaktuk). Going down river you will be OK & the oars will help. Remember, I was coming up river against contineous 5-10 knots of current (had to call in one air drop of fuel & I carry 100 gals. in internal tanks!).
(3) I do not know what the cost of barge shipping will be. (do know no passengers are allowed).
(4) When I was on the river even the locals could not make it up to Great Bear Lake in their boats (Lost a friend in a crash up there several years back who was the pilot for our 1980 North Pole Skydive Expedition), but some years it is said to be 'do-able'.

When I entered the Missouri River from the Poplar River coming out of Canada, I was directly across from the Yellowstone River and decided to jib sail up the river a little just for fun before continuing down the Missouri & Mississippi, got some strange looks from several fly fishermen along the banks (lol). Also, I believe Tom Root posted some archive links to my old 'Waterways of the Americas' website a few week back, you should be able to find them. FYI, I spent 3 months in the sound & San Juan's before heading up to Alaska and the Arctic back in 1997. Next time I go to Alaska and the Arctic Ocean I'll trailer, not sail the whole way.

Tahoe Jack,
I'm headed out of Sri Lanka to Thailand tomorrow night, then back here until 10 April, then I'll head back to good old Carson City for two weeks, I'll try to touch bases when I get there.MM
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Idle Time
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Post by Idle Time »

Chinook,
In one of you entries you mentioned a nice warm boat during the rain etc. What do you have for a heater.
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jda
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Post by jda »

Chinook,

Thanks for sharing the information about your trip to Alaska last summer. Excellent reading!!!!

jda
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Chinook
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Re: Do Loop in Mac

Post by Chinook »

Tahoe Jack wrote:Hey ....I strongly recommend reading Chinook's excellent Alaskan trip diary! See his link earlier in this thread. Very interesting and well written. :) Sure would be interested in some of your gear choices....e.g. number and sizes of fuel tanks, water system, GPS preferences, etc. Ground gear...e.g. how much chain. Also, how effective is your 3.5hp kicker as a get-to-port solo power source...what speed, will it handle a bit of wind or rougher water, etc. :?: Jack
Hi Jack,

Glad you enjoyed the diary. We've got my son to thank for pulling all the e'mails and digital photos on cd's together and producing the website.

Regarding gear, we set up as follows:

Fuel tanks: We bought the boat with a pair of 12 gallon tanks, set in the usual cockpit fuel tank lockers. They slip in with just a little trimming, but you need to install round access plates in the cockpit seats above the tank fill caps in order to reach the caps and fill the tanks. Fuel hose nozzles just do fit into the hole and reach the tank openings. We knew 24 gallons wouldn't be enough for the distances involved in SE AK (160 nm between fuel docks in a couple of instances along our intended route). I decided to carry a pair of 5 gallon plastic fuel cans, but the problem was stowage. I didn't want to be stumbling over them for 3 months. I ended up fitting a platform on the aft deck area, under the steering seat and above the steering arms for the outboard. I used components to an outdoor plastic deck system, which snap together. It was tricky maintaining clearances for the steering arms and allowing full tilt for the 50 hp ob, but it worked. It made stepping aboard through the stern a lot easier (no tubes to dodge with feet, and also provided enough flat surface on the port side (the side where the steering seat hinges) to accomodate a pair of upright style fuel cans. I installed eyelets and secured them with bungees, over the top and around the sides. Very secure, and I could fill them in place at the fuel dock. I was also able to slip a pair of 2.5 gallon plastic gas cans under the steering seat without getting in the way of feet. Finally, I carried a 1 gallon plastic can which I used for mixed gas for the kicker. This was usually strapped in the dinghy, which we trailed for most of the trip. I didn't like the idea of carrying more gas than that in the dinghy.

Water system: I never cared for the 5 gallon plastic jug system: too small, and too hard to fill. I spotted a design for installing a rigid plastic tank with external fill on the mod pages of this website. Don't know if it's still described, but I followed the description and it worked out great. I was able to fit (barely) a 9 gallon tank into the space, port side, between the forward galley base cabinet and the access cover under the port settee cushion. The fill line then snakes along the ballast tank under the galley, under the battery box, through the bilge under the king berth, and eventually up into the head cabinet under the sink and eventually up through the starboard gunnel toward the front of the cockpit, with a standard screw top water fill fitting finishing it off. It took almost 20 feet of heavy flex water line (2" I think) to make the connection, and was like wrestling an anaconda to install, but I love it every time I fill. I can see the water level rise through the translucent wall of the tank while I fill. I kept the 5 gallon jug for the head faucet, which doesn't get as much use. I installed a nice stainless verticle hand pump which works much better than the stock plastic rocker pump, and I also hooked up an electric pump to the same faucet, controlled by a pull switch. For big pots we run the pump. It's a nice setup. I also brought along a pair of spare 5 gallon collabsible jugs, but only filled one of them occasionally. We carried our backpack filter along incase we had to use stream water, but never needed it. We are very careful in our water use. We chose to use paper plates and bowls, so as to reduce dish washing needs. I usually went ashore each morning and burned the burnable trash below high tide. This saved water and kept trash accumulation to a managable level.

GPS: We use a Garmin 188, which is a combination chartplotter and depth sounder. That gives both instruments on a single screen, which I like for the small space available. I stowed a handheld GPS with spare batteries in a ditch bag for backup. I had chartbooks covering the route as far as Cape Caution, just across Queen Charolette Sound, but didn't see good chartbooks for the area further north. The marine atlas was too small in scale and hard to read. I ended up purchasing Maptech CD's for coastal BC and for SE Alaska. I spent much of last winter planning out the route, and I printed out chart pages for the planned route. I was able to connect my Garmin to the computer and load up waypoints for the route, and I drew them onto the paper charts. It was quite a project, but a nice way to spend the winter. The pages were slipped into plastic sleeves for protection from rain and spray and assembled into 3 ring binders (it took 4 binders to cover the entire 2100 mile route). I cross referenced the pages so they worked just like a chartbook, and I always had the paper charts with me in the cockpit. The waypoints were all loaded into the Garmin, and appeared with the generalized map of the world which comes with the unit. I had our laptop set up down on the table below, running on an inverter, and wired into the Garmin on the pedestal. The Maptech CD's were loaded onto the laptop, and the GPS connection allowed our boat to show position on the laptop. The pages advanced as we proceeded, and I could see the screen quite well from the steering position. I could see our track, and could zoom in when we had to maneuver into tight spots, which we tended to do a lot of.

Ground gear: I installed an anchor roller on the bow (our 2002 model has the running lights on the pulpit railing, which simplifies installation of a roller. I'd been using a Hydrobubble plow type anchor as my primary anchor, with 20 feet of chain and 200 feet of nylon rode, and started this trip that way. On the way to Prince Rupert I had a lot of trouble hooking. Hard cobbly bottoms and 30 to 40 foot anchoring depths. I saw a lot of boats with Bruce anchors, and picked one up in Rupert. It made a huge difference. I set it up in place of the plow, which I stowed below. In addition to the Bruce, I carry a Fortress Guardian danforth type with 15 feet of chain and 150 feet of line. With the Bruce secured on the roller, I can carefully flake its rode plus the Fortress and its rode all in the anchor locker. It's tight but it works, and they're both out where needed. Only inconvenience is having to lift the Fortress out of the way when I anchor, but I bungee it together so I don't create a mess. On advice of the Hales, who publish Waggoners for this area, I set up a 500 foot poly stern tie line for shore tieing. I used a plastic hose reel from a hose cart. Tore it apart, threw the cart away and salvaged the reel. I was able to attach a plastic pipe extension to the hub of the reel which fit into my Perko fishing rod holder. Quite handy for paying out the line and cranking back in. Only had to use it once, in Desolation Sound where I couldn't get the anchor to hook and ended up running bow and stern lines to shore across the mouth of a tight little cove.

Kicker to port: The 3.5 is a great dinghy motor for our 10 foot porta bote and it also does a good job from its swing down stern mount as a trolling motor for the big boat. I lock it in position and steer with the rudders down. It can push us along at around 4 knots with no current, light to no wind, and relatively smooth water. However, in much of SE you have currents of 3 to 4 knots, occasionally much faster. At full throttle it uses a fair amount of gas, and it uses an integral rather than external tank. It's more of a psychological kicker for the Mac than a real aid. In an exposed location with 30 or 40 miles to go, I wouldn't like to be relying on it. Still, it feels good seeing it back there.

Happy sailing, Mike Cecka
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