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Mercury has discontinued production of the carbureted 2-stroke motors because they no longer meet emissions standards.

The carbureted two-stroke was previously sold on the Whaler we own. Owners reported slightly higher speed, but MUCH more fuel consumption.

That motor is more likely to foul plugs than a direct-fuel-injected 2 stroke like the ETEC or TLDI, much less a four-stroke, but should otherwise be as reliable.

The bottom line is that your dealer has an obsolete outboard in stock that he wants to get rid of. He may not know any better, but I suspect he's lying about the fuel consumption to get rid of it. At part-throttle cruise, a fuel-injected 4-stroke (or DFI 2-stroke) should get about 40% better mileage than a carbureted two-stroke.

Vladimir, what outboard brands are sold near you? I am just curious. I think fuel injected Mercury BigFoot is a great choice. Thank You Robert
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I looked at the Solas prop nozzle / guard years ago, I did not get it back then because they had only a 12" and a 14" size, while my Suzuki DF50 would need a 13" size. They now have the 13" size. Years ago they were about half as expensive. http://www.solas.com.au/propguards.asp (scroll down for the polycarbonate version I am talking about)

I have recently noticed that all the small Mercury four stroke outboards carried at our local West Marine are actually rebadged Nissan/ Tohatsus, but at a much higher price (nearly 50% higher) than the Japanese badged versions. Don't know whether the high price is the Mercury markup or the West Marine markup or both, but it's really interesting considering many of those who buy Mercs think they're getting gen-u-ine Made in USA stuff.

But anyway, "ELPTO" is identical to the nomenclature on my '00 Tohatsu 50, carbureted 2-stroke, which I believe translated means "ELectric start Power Tilt Option" or something like that. Coincidence? Seems highly unlikely. Are the carbureted 2-stroke Mercs actually Tohatsus as well? What about the larger four strokes? Do they have a TLDI equivalent?

What a great forum!

I guess I wated long enough before I bought another motor. I have a Nissan 50 HP 2 stroke. Its a great motor. Its been on my Mac since new, (!996). But were being closed out of some areas because of pollution problems. (Lake Tahoe) etc. So Im looking for a four stroke.

Thanks for all the input from all over. You guys are a great bunch. Like I said, I love this forum.

Ken Grewe
Simple Pleasures
Shingle Springs, Ca.

Was at Mercury dealer today. He suggested that I should buy 2-sroke Mercury 60ELPTO BigFoot rather than 4-sroke Mercury F60ELPT EFI BigFoot.

His reasons:

1. 2-stroke is 30lbs lighter than 4-stroke
2. Of the same power
3. Of lesser fuel consumption
4. Has same reliability

I could also suggest that there is reason 5, not pronounced by him yet the most important for him: He has a 2-stroke BigFoot in stock whereas 4-stroke has not, and has to order it for me.

Nevertheless, I am confused. Any suggestions? Has anybody some experience with this 2-stroke BigFoot?
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Vladimir

Not having restrictions related to the two stroke from the gov. I would concider the two stroke big foot. weight, power, and easy repair would be high on my list. The 4 stroke is a very complex engine as far as working on it or getting parts. Compared to the two stroke.
The down side for me would be the ability to idle for hours to charge the battery or run the 12 volt stuff on the boat when moored. Two stroke still smoke and smell a bit.

I would go with the 60 bigfoot. That said I like the etech 90 better as the restrictions in my area would force me to go with that engine or the tohatsu 90. But again they are two stroke but way more compicated then the merc. to fix.

gph is good with the 4 stroke but not with the merc two stroke.
the other two strokes I mentioned above are on par with the 4 strokes in gph.

and you said the dealer near you recomends the 60 Merc so I take it he can fix them and get parts. I would go with the 60 bigfoot two stroke as long as you dont need great mpg or not going to run it at idle sittng still for very long.
If you were then I would go with the 90 etech or the 60 4 stroke big foot

referring to that stainless steel "prop-guard" in my photo on the previous page of this thread, -- It is sold as a "Powerthruster" and advertized as giving better thrust by channeling and containing the prop-wash, lessening cavitation (actually aeration) on turns when the prop gets shallower, (the "upper" fin prevents the prop from sucking down air when close to the surface ?? ) and prevents prop-walk, the sideways crabbing tendency at slow speeds, which is claimed by some to be useful, but only works in one direction and might often be detrimental. I returned the ring-prop but have been happy with the "guard" both for the bit of added safety and the performance. Have not noticed any appreciable drag, and the two sides are independantly adjustable to parallel.

Vladimir:
No I wasnt talking about the power from the ALT. or the output.
What I was trying to say was running the four stroke for long periods of time at Idle would be better then the two stroke only because of the smell from the burning oil. the amount of fuel you would use. The two stroke is a very good engine. The weight savings over the four stroke is a big plus.
But the four stroke at Idle doesnt produce the smoke or smell common with the two stroke. Either engine would be fine for charging the batterys
or running exc.
The e-tech and the tohatsu 90's will not smoke like the 60 bigfoot and do use less fuel.
The two stroke even the big foot has come a long way in the last few years and smoke would not be a big problem, but you will smell the burning of the oil. The worst time will be at idle with the breeze blowing into your stern.
In my case the power from the outboard is plenty to charge my two batterys almost a hundred percent of the time I use the boat.
The only time I may run the engine for long periods of time at a mooring would be to watch a dvd or some other 12 volt exc. on board for a long period. In that case I wouldnt want the two stroke smell blowing back into the cabin. This is not a problem with the 4 stroke. I use my boat as a sailor most of the time and the charging I get from the engine is enough for me.

As far as any guard on the prop, that would depend on your use.
Most people dont run a guard because anything you put down there by the prop will cut into performance. unless you plan to have people hanging around the stern in the water all the time I wouldnt mess with it
In over thirty years of owning boats I never had someone get cut because of my prop. But to each his own. I never used one so I really dont know. But common sense tells me there wil be a loss of power or the
Merc and the rest would have them installed before you buy the motor.
But I really dont know.

When you've totalled up the power requirement for each individual item times the anticipated number of hours of use per day, you may be quite surprised to find that, even with the modest equipment you listed above, you will have to run the outboard several hours per day to avoid going into a long term power deficit situation, where you're taking more out of the batteries than you are putting back in. BTW, I think you will find the radar a serious power hog.

If you intend to run the motor for several hours per day anyway, it's not a problem. However, if you intend to mostly sail, not motor, and you won't be able to replenish fuel for weeks at a time, you'll almost certainly have to come up with one or more auxiliary sources.

Solar is free and popular for those who like to think of sailing as a "greener" alternative to power boating. It is also quite expensive per watt hour, and on a boat the size of a Mac you will have a hard time finding the room to deploy enough solar panels to make make yourself self-sufficient in power generation versus consumption. This is particularly a problem in the northern lattitudes (did you mention St Petersburg?) where the sun angle is lower.

If you don't care so much about being green and just want to make power in an efficient manner, a small, inverter type generator such as the Honda EU series, run only when needed to replenish the batteries, is way more efficient than running the outboard and way cheaper per watt hour than solar.

In any case, if you are going to be a good distance from where you can get outside help in an emergency, it will be quite helpful to check beforehand to see if you can rope start your motor with dead batteries. I found such surprisingly easy with my carbureted Tohatsu 50HP two stroke, but there has always been some question on this board as to how hard it would be with a larger motor; partularly one with electronic fuel injection.

Chip is right about being able to pull start your motor, with all outboards going to fuel injection its important to understand you need a small amount of battery power to even try this. MY solution was to buy one of those portable power units from pepboys and it works even with a very dead battery. Yep I needed to use it. A generator is fine but its more stuff you have to store.
running the engine for electrical power needs may not do as well on fuel but for the limited times you do this, its ok.

unless you plan on long trips away from any services,( rarely done on a Mac) solar or wind power isnt needed. Get the Mac first then see what your needs are and go from there. Go out and enjoy your boat put your wants and needs into seperate areas, when the need and the want clash go get it.

aya16 wrote: 1) What I was trying to say was running the four stroke for long periods of time at Idle would be better then the two stroke only because of the smell from the burning oil. the amount of fuel you would use.

2) The two stroke is a very good engine. The weight savings over the four stroke is a big plus. .... Either engine would be fine for charging the batterys or running exc. ... The two stroke (big foot) has come a long way in the last few years and smoke would not be a big problem, but you will smell the burning of the oil. The worst time will be at idle with the breeze blowing into your stern.

3) The e-tech and the tohatsu 90's will not smoke like the 60 bigfoot and do use less fuel.

4) In my case the power from the outboard is plenty to charge my two batterys almost a hundred percent of the time I use the boat.

Vladimir,
I think that Mike (aya16) makes some very good points in his posting, but I think there are some valid clarifications, and some points to add.

1) 4-stoke "long periods of time at Idle would be better" than 2-stroke: Mike speaks of idling the motor for long periods to recharge the batteries, probably an occasional need. In addition to the smell, the 4-stroke is better because carbureted 2-stroke motors can quickly foul spark plugs, and this Merc 2-stroke's fuel economy is much worse, especially at low rpms, than the EFI 4-stroke.

2) The weight advantage of carbureted two-stroke motors is a fallacy. Their comparative fuel economy is so poor that you will easily find yourself carrying that weight savings in extra fuel, instead. The Mercury 2-stroke is clearly inferior for your plans, IMO.

3) "Glossy marketing" now claims that the modern, high-tech 2-strokes are as economical as 4-strokes, but their weights are closer to the 4-strokes too. For remote cruising, the ETEC or TLDI 2-strokes "might" be as good as the Merc EFI 4-stroke, but the question is still open, IMO.

4) I absolutely agree with Mike, my experience is that minor engine usage (maybe half-hour per day) easily keeps my two batteries fully recharged. The alternator capacity on most of these modern engines is ample for recreational use. However, you correctly noted that Maddmike uses many alternate sources for electricity, mainly because his outboards are very small, so much of his time was spent in pure sailing. In your case it's easy to try using the large outboard, and add other charging options later.

Actually, I think I recall an owner reported here that he DID rope-start his 60 hp ... seems to me that was a Merc-60. However, the best answer is to pose that question to the dealer and ask him to let you try it!