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Back before I got my 90 TLDI - BTW I think I was the maybe the second guy to put a 90TLDI on a MAC behind Frank from Kemah who put one on his X; he sold Macs for about 30 years before retiring.

Before I bought I spoke with a Tohatsu factory engineer who told me the 70 was in his opinion a marketing tool to compete in that category. He said to never buy what he described as a "detuned" engine. The 70 is a detuned 90, so it won't generate 90 HP and it has to be mostly at higher RPM's that this happens, but even at lower RPM's there has to be more torque generated by the 90. But why buy an engine block designed for one purpose that is made to run less efficiently to produce less HP?

It doesn't make any sense to me and even the factory engineer thought it was a worthless idea. So why mnfg the product in the first place? Do you know anybody in marketing? That answers it, but why blame them because some people will buy it.

JonBill wrote: Tohatsu factory engineer who told me the 70 was in his opinion a marketing tool to compete in that category. He said to never buy what he described as a "detuned" engine. The 70 is a detuned 90, so it won't generate 90 HP and it has to be mostly at higher RPM's that this happens, but even at lower RPM's there has to be more torque generated by the 90. But why buy an engine block designed for one purpose that is made to run less efficiently to produce less HP?

Hey JonBill!
haven't heard from you in a while...hope your TLDI is purring nicely.

regarding your comments above...you make a very valid point about different horsepower engines being made from the same block.

an example of that is Suzuki's 4 stroke 60-70hp (both weighing over 335# - so most go with the 70), and the Suzuki 90, 115, and 140hp (all above 400#).
regarding the latter configuration...it's hard to believe that the same block/powerhead can put out 55% more power (i.e. 90 vs 140).

but, in order for the manufacturer to compete within the different hp segments and to stay profitable, they gotta use the same block for several different hp ratings.

and knowing that, i personally would not consider the large and "super heavy" de-tuned Suzuki 90 for a Mac. that powerhead is just too heavy for my taste.

as been discussed many times, i do not believe that a 310# Tohatsu TLDI or Evinrude Etec is overkill for a Mac. it's just enough power to cruise comfortably at 20mph without requiring WOT to get there. And, for trailering weight...they're only 60# more than a Suzi 50 but weigh less than a Suzi 70.

Booby T.,
Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, been trying to get out on the water more lately and work and chat less.

What happen to my engine is a testament to the Tohatsu. If you'll remember it ran for about a year on 2 of the 3 cylinders, had 4 Tohatsu mechanics look at and try to figure it out why it was under powered before one good ole boy deer hunter from down her in SE Texas was able to diagnos the problem a plugged air injector.

It ran so good on the 2 cylinders that the factory didn't think there was anything wrong with it. They kept saying "your boats too heavy" and stuff like that. Now that it's running on all 3 cylinders you can imagine the power. What a rush!!

It's cool planning the boat out at 3600 RPM and just crusing when the wind dies. It is mizerly on fuel consumption too at that RPM. What a good engine.

Pull one of the the spark plug wires off any other comparable competitors 3 cylinder engine and see how it runs. You can do that to a 90TLDI and not even tell anything is wrong. It pulls the dead cylinder through the compression stroke and will still push and cruize a MAC 26 at over 18MPH. That's running on 2 cylinders.

With all 3 cylinders running it's scary to go full throttle. Can't even get a good look at the GPS at that speed 'cause the wind speed is burning my eyes too much (lol).

Got to go Bobby T. Keep Catalina cruising!

Regards,
JonBill

I'm curious - what top speed (on calm waters, for example) do you get out of your Tohatsu?

Be careful with the Tohatsu TLDI at high altitudes (above about 4000 feet). I got the Tohatsu 50 HP TLDI 2 years ago when we got our boat. It ran rough at Chatfield (about 5500 feet). At Granby it hardly even ran. If the air was cold it actually ran well but other times I couldn't even do 1500 rpm. The Macgregor dealer (Supersport Marine) found out that the MAP sensor didn't work properly at high altitude and switched me to a 40 HP carburated version. The 40 hp carburated is much lighter (158 lbs) and cheaper so I'm not too disappointed. I wouldn't be surprised if Tohatsu has the problem fixed by now but just want to caution you.

You might want to talk to Fred at Boat Shop in Commerce City, 303-287-2788. He's an expert on Tohatsu.

baldbaby2000 wrote:Be careful with the Tohatsu TLDI at high altitudes (above about 4000 feet).

you are absolutely correct!
it's a poor technology for high(er) altitudes. this "problem" will probably not be fixed anytime soon with this low pressure injection system. it needs "sea-level" oxygen to function correctly.
so, if you'll mostly be at locations in Colorado, or even Lake Powell...go with the Etec which seems to do much better at altitude. or wait until Tohatsu changes it's TLDI technology to something different (which may happen soon anyway so that they can get to 3-Star rating).

kmclemore wrote:I'm curious - what top speed (on calm waters, for example) do you get out of your Tohatsu?

we've discussed this before...

lightly loaded X with a stock 15 pitch prop gets to 30+mph @ WOT but does not reach the desired RPM range. this prop lugs the engine if you get any weight into the boat.

normally to heavy loaded X with an 11 pitch pontoon prop gets you to 26mph and to the top of the RPM range. it's actually suggested by the Tohatsu techs that i've talked with to go with an 11 pitch "work prop" for the Mac. now that there is some history with the mac and the 90 TLDI.

Kmclemore,
With my 90 TLDI, I've gotten over 28 KNOTS in LA harbor by myself, no ballast, mast up, 200 pounds(anchors, stainless dodger, bimini, etc.), calm with 3 knots wind behind me. When cruising the harbor with 2 passengers and myself, same set up, usually avg 23 knots WOT.

The boat really excels loaded with ballast as well. My 2002x has main ballast tank forward, and she'll blast through at almost 20 knots wot. Add weight forward(dinghy on bow, or wife and kid sleeping in forward bunk, and you can add a couple knots.

Open ocean cruising is a dream in this configuration plus 300 pounds Catalina gear during heavy swell, chop. Cruise 10-17 knots comfortably and safely(bout third more fuel when boat is this heavy) . Boat will stick to surface with no pounding, plus torque makes the added weight easy to direct/steer.

Once sailors learn the "difficult" job of "mastering the throttle" of this higher powered engine, it is a dream.
Rolf

I've never got my M boat (early model) with the 300 extra pounds of ballast over 25 MPH so divide that by 1.15 and that would equate to knots. That's as an average running both ways in calm seas.

However I've also never tried to lighten her up any just for a 'speed' run either. That's 25 mph with 300 lbs fixed ballast, 2 -12 gal fuel tanks usually full, dinghy, fishing gear, sailing gear, pots and pans and accessotres for over nighting, not to mention never go nowhere without at least 10 gallons of drinking water and never go nowhere without my bride - I like tall women too so she's no little gal either; plus mast rasing winch, extra props, fenders, hardware for emergencies, tool box, life jackets, 2 boat horns, 1 extra galley (as I installed the newer model sliding galley in my older M and haven't converted the old one yet to something more useful), trolling motor, sleeping bags, extra ice chest (as I use the $39 air conditioner which actually works) 3 batteries (1 to run the A/C), spinaker, radio, extra canned food, bait buckets, casting nets and mast up providng lots of wind resistance and at least a 12 pack of beer - so you could say I've never really tried to go faster and it will still hit 25MPH.

Since I don't plan to sail above sea level the high altitude failure shouldn't be a problem that I will ever experience, but can't say I've ever heard of that complaint before, but will defer to those who have.

This boat gets pretty squirrely at 25 MPH so I don't think I want to go much faster than that anyway so don't plan to lighten'er up any time soon, besides I need all my stuff, especially the tall bride.

What a nice day it is here today and I'd rather be sailing on "Liberty", or fishng on "Liberty" or motoring on "Liberty" or just on "Liberty" anchored somewhere watching the sunset.

Kind Regards,
JonBill