Help!! New 26x owner with Battery Question

[Frank C]

... WE do not have a perKo switch.
Following the red cable from the engine under the aft to the 1st battery by the galley (99 mac)
we find no switches on the walls nor in the compartment ( under the seat).
From that battery#1 we follow red cable fwd to the dinette ... compartment where battery#2 is.
No perco switch.
There is a 1 inch by 2 inch black box ... with wire going in and out of it.
There are wires that attach to the battery. LOts that attach to one side.
(they have plastic tubes associated with them I think may contain fuses) ...

All good advice, especially that the combiner might not be able to serve a weak battery.
OTOH, this is a Costco battery, still under warranty. Still . . .

• Colleen describes both batteries are connected by heavy red cable (parallel).
• Also that the Start battery never failed.
• Also that the fuse panel service first dimmed, then went dead.
• If the batteries are cabled together, why doesn't the Starter battery serve the fuse panel?
• Also, if the batteries are cabled together, there's no reason to have a combiner.

Is anyone else wondering about the accurate (or complete) picture?

Chuck or Colleen,
Seems that there's an 'info disconnect' in this story. If the two batteries are connected with a heavy cable, then the start battery "should" be serving the switch panel. Also, there's no reason for a combiner if the batteries are hard-wired together. Conversely, if the batteries are isolated, then the red cable must be interrupted by a switch ... at minimum, by the combiner. This is the only way to isolate the fuse panel from the Starting battery.

Need more info. Meanwhile, I also have a West Marine combiner-50, and I have the PDF of installation directions. I'll try to find a website for your download ... or else, send me a PM with your email addy (not in a post).

[chuckncole]

Sorry for the confusion.

The two batteries are connected through the combiner 50. I think that the combiner 50 switch is turned off so that no charge can go to the full cycle battery -- my theory. I havent been back to the boat yet to check it out. The combiner 50 switch may be bad too. I have not found the remote switch. There is no info on the remote switch from the web site as to what it looks like. It is probably lost. The combiner 50 has a 1 year warentee but I have no clue about mtbf for the switch.

Hopefully the water that I put in the battery has braught some life to the battery. I will try and buy a trickel battery charger this weekend. Any one out there have any ideas for a cost effective battery charger?

Chuck

[beene]

cost effective battery charger?

Best thing I can think of is what Cat said, conect the starter batt to your dead house batt with a set of booster cables while running the motor for a while.

Go for a cruise under power with it hooked up like that and call it R & D for the boat or something.

Chances are, you already own a set of cables, so the cost to you is zero dollars..... wish all fixes were that cheap.

G

[March]

If the WestMarine combiner works like the Xantrex Pathmaker, I think that what happened was, the house battery is completely down. One and a half bottles of water (what size, bottles?) would suggest that the battery was "boiling"--or one element was shorted out. Adding water will not help. You could recharge it, of course, you might want to take it out and haul it to a Napa Auto store or equivalent and have it checked. It might be shorted out. If it is, you might get a new battery right there and then

The Pathmaker will "sense" if one battery is shorted out and "refuse" to pour more juice into a sieve, so you won't be able to recharge from the outboard. Besides, if the battery is shorted out, it won't hold current anyways. The remote to the Xantrex is optional--you can manually "link" the two batteries and force the outboaard charger pour into both, but the house battery won't hold the juice. You might even short the combiner out. The WestMarine combiner might do the same. It combines the batteries when need be, but otherwise, it would pour juice into whichever needs it most, disconnecting the other one--first into the engine battery and once the engine battery is full, it switches to the house battery. But if the house battery is shorted out (or completely empty) it will "isolate it" and go back to the engine battery. If the two batteries are combined and one is shorted out, the bad one would drain the good one too, I think. That seems to be the reason why your combiner doesn't switch to the house battery and charge it.

I would haul the house battery out and have it checked at the napa store--and then replace it. My guess is, one element is shorted out.

[Frank C]

Sorry for the confusion.

The two batteries are connected through the combiner 50. I think that the combiner 50 switch is turned off so that no charge can go to the full cycle battery -- my theory. I havent been back to the boat yet to check it out. The combiner 50 switch may be bad too. I have not found the remote switch.

Sounds like you probably don't have a switch. While most of us add Perkos to enhance flexibility, maybe your PO judged them not essential. They provide a handy way to avoid the jumper cables mentioned just above, plus of course, a quick way to completely disconnect the battery from the boat's circuits.

Your WestMar-50 IS an electronic switch. Under a logical protocol, it "combines" the batteries when it senses a charging voltage (alternator or shore charger), then isolates them again as soon as it senses either battery is discharging. But I only now learned that its protocol might sometimes refuse to combine them.

Since the House battery is Costco's, and warranteed, that choice is simple. Take it back. There's a strategy that says a full-sized Starter battery is a waste of resources. The average 50 hp outboard is usually started with a 10-pound motorcycle battery, not 55 lbs. of automotive battery. Ergo, one might dedicate the weight of both batteries for House service and starting duty, and carry a jump-start battery for emergencies. There are valid reasons that a double-sized House bank adds more than double the electricity reserves.

Joining the batteries eliminates need for the Combiner. Search on combiner (top-center link) to find a dozen of detailed earlier discussions on batteries, wiring, etc.

[Moe]

I haven't been following this thread, but at Frank's request, here is the instruction sheet for the West Marine Combiner 50. It has wiring diagrams that might be useful in this case.

--
Moe
(to the rescue -- again!)


ModsNote: thanks! ~fc

[Moe]

Let me add a few things about combiners... first, the combiner's negative lead must be connected to the wire that runs between the battery negative posts or to one of the batteries' negative post.

Second, when a house battery is heavily discharged, as soon as the combiner sees a charged starting battery above 13.3 volts (or whatever the energize voltage is) with the outboard alternator running, and it closes the relay, the heavily discharged house battery pulls the entire voltage down, including on the charging side, below 13.3 volts (or whatever the release voltage is), and the relay opens. Then voltage on the charging side rises and it closes, and repeats this, causing the relay to chatter, and the house battery to never get charged. This can eventually destroy the relay. Some combiners release at a lower voltage than they energize, to try to address this, but this chatter can still happen with them.

That's one reason why many cruisers with diesel engines connect the alternator output to the house battery bank and charge it up first before the combiner energizes and then tops off the starting battery. Can't do that with an outboard where the alternator charges over the starter cables.
--
Moe