Buying a new main sail ? Muslehead ?

[bscott]

I have a loose footed(special order) KH C2000 main on my M mast which can be flown extremely flat provided you harden up the main halyard, out haul and traveler. For a flatter main you can install a Cunningham as well. If you order a main from other manufacturers be sure to specify a flat trimaran cut specific to a rotating mast.

Bob

[bubba]

Please explain in some detail

which can be flown extremely flat provided you harden up the main halyard, out haul and traveler. For a flatter main you can install a Cunningham as well.

I thought the Cunningham was made in the main sail, if not where do I buy one ?
We currently use our winch when hoisting our main sail, I don't know how much tighter I can get the mast edge of the main without breaking something or pulling out the stiches in the main sail's bolt rope on the mast edge of the sail like the sails foot bolt rope, is that what I do ? Do I remove all the bolt rope stiches all around for a flatter cut sail with no bunching of sail cloth around the bolt rope edges.

[Highlander]

Bubba

here you can see my Cunningham at the base of the back side of the mast attached to the mainsail at an eyelet approx 9-12" up from the tack its the red line


their cheap to make its basicaly a small vang here in this pic you can see the red control line comes inside the dodger sitting on top of the sliding hatch

J

[delevi]

There are 2 parts to a cunningham. 1st is the webbing installed on the mainsail which will be approximately 6 inches above the tack. Without this setup on the sail, you can't use a cunningham. Second, there is a block & tackle (3:1 or 4:1 is good.) This block & tackle is attached to the webbing on the sail and to one side of the mast below. Pull the line and you will pull the bottom portion of the sail down. This will flatten the top portion of the sail. To flatten the rest of the sail, use the outhaul. I use a 4:1 tackle x2 with thew clew doubling the purchase. The outhaul is your primariy flattening control. Cunningham, traveler & vang would all be secondary in no specific order.

[bubba]

We must need to connect our main sail tack a different way so the foot will slide far enough foward to use a proper outhall. Our tack ring is pined thru the bolt rope slot on the boom about an inch from the boom end. Is it because of our our sails have been converted to sail slides which moves the sail aft about 2+ inches, I wonder if putting a pin in the mast track for the mainsail's tack ring will move the foot foward and give us more room for a good outhall setup. Has anyone done this or other fixes ?

When setting up a loose footed main do you attach sail slides to the aft end of the foot ? What keeps it from flopping all around ? What weight of line to hold all that pressure on the outhall 4x1 ?

[Highlander]

Bubba
Yes you can install a sail slug in the clew end of the sail that will slide inside the boom slot thats what I have , I had the bolt rope removed from the foot & the tack & clew corners re-enforced & sluggs installed for the mast slot & spray lots of that slide glide stuff into the mast & boom slots so as the sluggs slide nice & easy

I have slide slugs installed on my main for the mast slot but still have lots of room at the end of my boom , but will be waiting untill I get my mast up in my drive way so as I can install & fly the main then mark the boom for my reef points & outhaul points before I start cutting into the boom !

J

[bubba]

What weight of line do you use on the outhall to hold the power of a loose footed mainsail.

[delevi]

The tack ring should be installed directly above the gooseneck. The Bolt for the gooseneck should have a fitting riding above it which accepts another bolt. This boltholds the tack ring in place. This is a stock item. If you don't have it, you should probably get it.

When they make your loose-footed main, it will come with a jumbo-sized slug, webbed to the sail below the clew ring. No other slugs are needed for the foot, nor would you want them.

I use 1/4 inch line for my outhaul and reef lines.

Bubba, stop swetting the details. If you made the decision to get custom-made sails from a loft, they will take care of all this stuff and go through it with you when they come out to your boat. Enjoy that 60th B-Day preasant.

Leon

[bubba]

I just found 3 other sail lofts in Seattle to give me bids. Ballard Sails 1-206-706-5500 has been open 2.5 weeks (that is why the phone number) next to the West Marine near Schilshole Bay Marina, Joe and Alix were very eager to do our bid, they make there sails inhouse using a cad computer design w/cutting table, whatever you want call them. Rush Sails, Scott Rush who put our 3rd reef on our stock mainsail 2 years ago has changed from being the sail repair business for West Marine and BWY's to making custom sails and other stuff. Doyle Sails has a new sail loft in Seattle, Jim Kitchen and he has been working on a new sail design for MacGregor's BWYs and he is getting me a quote for those sails and an upgrade in material. More quotes to come

This has been a real education and an eye opening experence on how and what works the best and how to get the best sail shape from some of our best Mac sailers. Some times it's not the highest priced sails that do the best allaround job I have found that upwind sails are special cut and need a better grade of lighter fabric or laminate or heavier weight dacron material to keep streach low. Ordering a roller furling jib without a foam luff for reefing is not good and you end up with a jib that can't be reefed without 'bagging out the jib shape' and being almost counter productive as far as to control our tinder boats healing. Tinder to some, is what a narrow beamed boat is and sails cut flat help tinder boats from over healing and over reefing in more breeze.


To an ex nuclear fuel mechanical designer like me, doing new sail reserch is a lot of fun. Folks buy sailboats to customize them especially MacGregors don't they?

[Highlander]

I use 5/16" line I find it cuts less into the hands when really pulling on it
I thought I read in another thread you had already order K/H sails

J

[bubba]

No I haven't ordered yet.

The KH sails are nice sails.
I want to look around and get quotes, I am not the assuming kind of shopper so I want several bids and by talking to sail loft sail designers I am learning lots about what will make a MacGregor 26 M sail the best up wind, like crusing racing sails, we have a spinnaker for down wind sailing.

[Highlander]

Bubba

keep us all posted with what you decide to go with . I know up here in ON. Canada the sail loft prices were & are still three times the price for the same quotes on the same sails & materials & workmanship than US quotes I've had done
I think they'd sooner keep you coming back to repair your old sails yr after yr
I did find a sail loft who was reasonable in Sidney on Vancouver Isle BC who I had make my custom 350sq. ft Drifter and yes they did make their own sails in-house

Cheers J

[School House Steve]

Okay Here is a picture of Museclehead sail in action. I had to lay on the floor of the cabin and shoot up through the hatch for the picture. "Otto Whihelm" vas steering das boot. Bubba I may be starting new job Thursday the 30th which gives me Monday available to get together for test sail otherwise maybe next week end. Does this look flat enough for up wind sailing? Sorry but it looks like a slight bubble near the middle draft stripe, but that could be explained since the boat was on Autohelm while I was taking pictures.

[delevi]

The draft stripes show the picture. Looks drafty, though maybe your outhaul wasn't cranked down. Maybe mast rotation too. For sailing upwind in medium to heavy air, I don't rotate the mast. I know this can bring up a lot of debate, but I feel that mast rotation creates excess draft which counteracts the benefit of rotation. I only rotate to power up the sail. When I'm in depower mode, the mast gets centered and pinned, cunningham tight, outhaul tight, backstay tight, vang tight and traveler to leeward.

[bubba]

I don't rotate the mast. I know this can bring up a lot of debate, but I feel that mast rotation creates excess draft which counteracts the benefit of rotation. I only rotate to power up the sail.

On one other Mac 26M I saw one better http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm42 ... 8012-1.jpg it is on the Black Pearl that was the project of BWY's . notice the mast rotation control you would have back at the cockpit. I always wondered how that could benfit out sailing, Thanks Now I know.