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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:18 am
by Chip Hindes
Frank wrote:The issue is that the mast wants to twist to the heavier side - determined by the lay of the wrapped Genoa along the mast.
I find the real problem is that the furled genny wants to slide down on one or the other spreader, and with the spreader as lever, twist the mast to that side. I leave one bungee on, approximately at the masthead light, with the genny on the top (forward side) of the mast. I can twist it to get the bolt through. I admit it could be easier. You would only need a little additional leverage; I've been thinking I might add something to the base of the mast to accomplish this; Maybe something like a folding step?
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:20 am
by Moe
The balance isn't an issue. It's fairly easy to keep the mast down. The Jeff Stagg (Speedy Rigger) straddle method more than solves that problem. What makes it appear so easy for Jeff is that he doesn't have a roller furler pushing on one of the spreaders, as Chip mentions. One solution to controlling the mast rotation when pinning it is a mate pushing down on the other spreader. Another for single-handing would be a
strap wrench. Note the shape of the strap on this one is very similar to the cross-section of the mast. It doesn't need to be anywhere this large or robust, and could even be homemade.
--
Moe
Ahhhhh, I see ...
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:15 am
by Andy26M
Ahh, I see now, re: the twisting thing.
This had not occurred to me as a problem, having not sailed or rigged an X.
This is not an issue on the M because with the rotating mast, the mast foot can just be rotated so that the holes match up. Actually, gravity pretty much keeps it aligned since the flange where the bolt goes through is the heavier side of the foot.
- AndyS
Re: Free and Inexpensive Mods (solution to bolt issue)
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:39 am
by Jim Cate
I for one appreciate any opportunity to learn from fellow Mac sailors and to enhance sailing on my MacGregor at minimal cost.
Regarding the long discussion with respect to problems entailed in using a smaller diameter bolt for attaching the mast and then replacing it with a larger bolt, we seem to be overlooking something. - That is, when the smaller bolt is withdrawn, it doesn't have to be withdrawn all the way (from both sides of the mast) before the larger, standard bolt is introduced to replace it. Instead, the logical way to replace the smaller bolt with the larger, standard bolt would be to withdraw the smaller one from the opposite side of the recepticle and mast, but not from the "near" side, and then reintroduce the standard bolt in the opposite side before the smaller bolt is completely withdrawn from the near side. - Then, while the mast is temporarily held in place by the standard, larger bolt, withdraw the smaller bolt; then push the larger bolt all the way through the mast and through the near side of the recepticle.
In other words, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
- My two cents.
Jim Cate
Dave X2000 Jac wrote:Hello Group,
Yes, it's that time again for the biennial brain-picking from the resident cheapskate. I enjoy sailing my MacX, and much of that enjoyment comes from free or inexpensive mods that make trailering, mast raising, and sailing easier and safer. Please don't hold back or assume that all readers of this forum already know "that."
For example, I'll start with these:
1. White PVC pipe over the trailer guides so they extend out of the water. This allows you to AIM, not GUESS, when putting the boat back on the trailer.
2. Use a thinner diameter bolt when attaching the mast to the plate prior to raising. It slides in much easier, and is replaced by the regular diameter bolt once the mast is up and the forestay is attached.
3. Guys, when you can't pee over the stern, use/keep a quart-sized Gatorade bottle in the head sink for a container (to be dumped over the side later while out from shore). It cuts in half the frequency of having to empty the PortaPotty.
4. Cut the ankle and calf sections off an old pair of blue jeans and slide them over your dock fenders. The ankle hem is just the right daimeter to keep them from sliding off. Rubber dock fenders, squeaking a night, send far too much sound through the hull when I'm trying to sleep.
Now it's your turn. Please don't hold back assuming that everyone already does or knows "that".
Thanks,
Dave "Jac"
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:38 pm
by Sloop John B
In stepping the mast, the weight of the furled genoa will cause the mast to twist one way or another. I secure the furler to the mast where the spreaders are attached.
You can't have anything interfering with the back (bottom) of the mast at this point because it has to slide over the crutch on it's way back getting into position.
Take a normal bungee, about a yard long, and open up the wire a little at each end. Holding the furler in place with one hand, attach the bungee to the 'underside' of the spreader. The bungee then goes over the top of the mast and furler, and loops under the opposite spreader, back up over the top of the mast, loop the near spreader and so on, until you run out of bungee, and attach it to a spreader. The furler is locked tight at this point to the mast, can't ease down on one of the spreaders, and the underside is clear to push this area over the crutch.
Wash mitt over the drum sounds good. I think someone would steal mine.
Don't remember if anyone mentioned the plastic crimp bungee's Duane clewed us in on available at BWY. These cut down considerably on a lot of the fuss.
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:37 pm
by Frank C
Sloop John B wrote: . . . I secure the furler to the mast where the spreaders are attached.
. . . take a normal bungee, about a yard long, and open up the wire a little at each end. Holding the furler in place with one hand, attach the bungee to the 'underside' of the spreader. The bungee then goes over the top of the mast and furler,
Sloop,
Gotcha. Of course I always knew I could find a way to center the furler, but remember that I'm still tryin' to match Chip's 12 minute drill - no time, no time, gotta hustle, and then I gotta stop and remove the bungee before the mast is too .... high ... to reach ... the ... bungee .... OH DAMN!
... so whenever the Wench's handy it's quicker to tell 'er to lift the spreader.
NO - NO - NO, not that one, the OTHER one!
( if that sounds kinky, get yer mind outta the brine)!
Re: Free and Inexpensive Mods (solution to bolt issue)
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:42 am
by Tom Root
Jim Cate wrote:I for one appreciate any opportunity to learn from fellow Mac sailors and to enhance sailing on my MacGregor at minimal cost.
Regarding the long discussion with respect to problems entailed in using a smaller diameter bolt for attaching the mast and then replacing it with a larger bolt, we seem to be overlooking something. - That is, when the smaller bolt is withdrawn, it doesn't have to be withdrawn all the way (from both sides of the mast) before the larger, standard bolt is introduced to replace it. Instead, the logical way to replace the smaller bolt with the larger, standard bolt would be to withdraw the smaller one from the opposite side of the recepticle and mast, but not from the "near" side, and then reintroduce the standard bolt in the opposite side before the smaller bolt is completely withdrawn from the near side. - Then, while the mast is temporarily held in place by the standard, larger bolt, withdraw the smaller bolt; then push the larger bolt all the way through the mast and through the near side of the recepticle.
In other words, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
- My two cents.
Jim Cate
Way to go! That is a method I can sink my teeth into! Gotta love this board!
Cheap Mods
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:54 pm
by Newell
8 years of mast up and down and still using original bolt and I have a furler. Perhaps better than using 2 bolts put a taper on the original and drill a hole in it for a pin. Then those who are challenged, only have 1 bolt and the pin to keep in-hand.
Newell
Fast Sunday 96X[/img]
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:04 pm
by Scott
I had high hopes for this thread, Instead it turned into a debate about mast raising.
Someone should fire it back up and everyone should post free and cheap mods.
Scott: Hi my name is Scott and Im frugal
Group: Hi Scott
Moderator: Scott its OK to be cheap and be proud of it!
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:29 pm
by Jim Bunnell
Hi - My name is Jim and I'm cheap too!
Very inexpensive way to store fenders; run a couple of passes of bungee cord front to back under the helm seat. I keep three there, always available, out of sight and easy to get to. Does not interfer with Tahatsu 50 in raised position.
Back to you Scott -
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:25 pm
by Greg
Make a few of
these and clip them to your mast to cradle the furler and it stays centered while you install the bolt.
Greg
mast cleats
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:26 pm
by ALX357
Frank...
I asked Bill @ Macgregor before i put the two additional cleats on my mast, and he said tight screws were plenty strong... the forces are shear there not pulling directly out. But be sure to use just the right size pilot drill .... too big and there is not enough mast metal to form threads, too little and the screw will break before you get it threaded in all the way... kinda a feel thing, probably supposed to use a tap to cut threads, but that is for bolts, no ? (question for engineers )
the torquey mast problem due to furler weight on the spreaders... i have made my spreaders removable with clevis pins, and ring-dings, and keep them against the mast until the mast is bolted to the step. Makes the decks and cockpit easier to move around in without the shrouds and spreaders in the way of going up over forward.... I REALLY LIKE the idea mentioned on this thread of strapping the furler to the spreaders in such a way to not obstruct the rolling back of the mast on the pedestal roller....
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:10 am
by kmclemore
ALX357 wrote:But be sure to use just the right size pilot drill .... too big and there is not enough mast metal to form threads, too little and the screw will break before you get it threaded in all the way... kinda a feel thing, probably supposed to use a tap to cut threads, but that is for bolts, no ? (question for engineers )
First, yes, I believe in tapping a hole in metal before driving a screw into it - and I don't generally use self-tapping screws as they are usually of poor quality and almost never available in stainless for marine use. I use Hanson/Irwin brand taps & dies, and they have proven to be extremely durable when used with reasonable care and the proper cutting lubricant.
Regarding the correct drills for use with taps, I strongly recommend using 'number' drills (aka 'wire gauge'), not fractional drills. Number drills will most correctly match the size you need when drilling prior to tapping, and will result in a more correct thread height. The screws then won't be sloppy in the holes or too tight either. (Almost every tap & die set comes with a little paper chart of the correct drills to use with each tap, and I think you'll find they specify number drills.)
See
HERE for an example of the sort of drills you should use. The smaller set is *really* small, and is best for use with cleaning carburettor jets and such.
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:47 am
by Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL
A customer of mine, with a 26X, had one of his plastic cleats pull out of his mast.
I took two of the cleats and cut their base to a bevel cut, on a table saw, so that when they were back on the mast, the outsides of the cleats were paralell, fore and aft.
I then connected them together, with longer machine screws and lock nuts thru the original holes in the mast on both sides, where they had been attached with sheet-metal screws.