Help - slighly discouraged - setting up rig on 26x - failure

[Starscream]

Well I can confirm that the luff support pin doesn't actually go through the luff, it just goes through the drum and then the luff comes down and rests on it. Once the pin is out, the drum will lift up but then it gets stuck on the furling line itself. A good pull got it up over the furling line: it sticks a bit where the metal "cup" overlaps the furling drum.

I just changed the forestay. Took about 15 minutes, ten of those were looking for where the heck I put it the other day. I took photos and will post later. I had to take out the furler line to detach the old forestay.

The old forestay was bent at the point where it attached to the turnbuckle but otherwise in very good condition. It slid right out, no problem, and the new one from BWY slid right in without any need for messenger lines. The old forestay was loose enough in the luff that I took the chance and there was no problem at all pushing the new one in.

WARNING: my furling line was old but looked fine. Since I took it out anyway I checked it and found a completely chafed-through section about 14' in from the stopper knot. It was so chafed that I pulled it apart by hand. I suspect that this was the section that rested against the metal cup when sailing with an unfurled headsail. Not something I normally go check under sail, but lesson learned.

I want the forestay to be easier to pin, but still tight, so I didn't put the screw the turnbuckle into the new forestay quite as far as the old one: maybe 1/4" less which hopefully will alleviate a lot of swearing during rigging. I won't put up the mast to check until I've had a chance to go get a new furling line. I guess this plan depends on the new forestay being the exact same length as the old one.

[Wind Chime]

I want the forestay to be easier to pin, but still tight, so I didn't put the screw the turnbuckle into the new forestay quite as far as the old one: maybe 1/4" less which hopefully will alleviate a lot of swearing during rigging.

Todd from BWY said recently that the correct amount of effort to pin the forestay on a model-X, should consist of - "substantial swearing and some general grunting, but not difficult enough to break a sweat".

[Signaleer]

I want the forestay to be easier to pin, but still tight, so I didn't put the screw the turnbuckle into the new forestay quite as far as the old one: maybe 1/4" less which hopefully will alleviate a lot of swearing during rigging.

Todd from BWY said recently that the correct amount of effort to pin the forestay on a model-X, should consist of - "substantial swearing and some general grunting, but not difficult enough to break a sweat".

In Alabama right now you can't go outside without breaking a sweat... so...

[Starscream]

Well the new forestay is now on, as well as a new 3/16" polyester furling line and new shrouds all around. And, maybe surprisingly, the furler works great. Even more surprisingly the forestay pin had just the right amount of swearing but no sweat, just as recommended.

All six shrouds were perfectly sized from BWY. All worked exactly as advertised and were easy to install with no special tools. Now I have some peace of mind, especially with the backup rope forestay that I installed a few weeks ago. That backup was also easy to install and adds some peace of mind when mast raising.

I'll try to get some photos into the mods section.

[WASP18]

Sounds great!

While disassembling my rig today, I noticed the top of the forestay did not have a "T-bolt/Toggle" for an interface attachment to the "hound". This part of the forestay was shaped in a loop. This is also the part that spun briefly in my hand when I detached it from the "hound", causing me to describe this experience which alerted Tomfoolery to send out a caution.

[K9Kampers]

Sounds great!

While disassembling my rig today, I noticed the top of the forestay did not have a "T-bolt/Toggle" for an interface attachment to the "hound". This part of the forestay was shaped in a loop. This is also the part that spun briefly in my hand when I detached it from the "hound", causing me to describe this experience which alerted Tomfoolery to send out a caution.

The top of the forestay IS a loop, the T-bolt is only at the bottom. Tom's caution was regarding the abscence of the T-bolt attaching the furler/forestay to the bow. The " spin briefly" as you describe is normal as the wire is only attached to the turnbuckle at the other end. It just passes thru the luff extrusion, not attached to it.

EDIT: The bottom only T-bolt reference is based on my experience with my rig and deemed acceptable from other sources as it differs from manufacturers recommendation. YMMV.

[WASP18]

OK, thanks. However, I noticed on page 5 in the CDI FF2 manual, a toggle is required on both ends.

Here's the link http://www.sailcdi.com/sailpdf/FF2%20manual%207_06.pdf

[K9Kampers]

Yes, it does show that. Mine came with a loop end and thimble and previous discussion in one or another forum concluded that was acceptable. Others have it too, IIRC.

[Tomfoolery]

K9 is right; the FFII manual does show a toggle, and it is a better detail, but the boats were shipped without one at the top, and most folks keep it that way. But you need to keep an eye on that connection.

If there is extra room between the top of the furler and the lowest swaged oval sleeve, you could screw in the turnbuckle and add a toggle. But you might have to shorten the foil a little and shorten the forestay too. I've never looked into it, but others here have so hopefully someone else can add some insight.

[WASP18]

First, we got the mast back on the boat - went fine. (I did notice the spreaders actually seem to rest/put some pressure on the top of the lifelines. Is this normal?)

Yes, it's normal, at least in the sense that it's what happens if you don't take steps to prevent it. Others have outlined two methods. I'll add another, and many others here do this - use tractor pins to hold the spreaders in place, and unpin them from the sockets when the mast is down but before you roll it back (when lowering). Use a bunch of cheap ball bungies to secure all that rigging to the mast (Walmart specials).

We tried to hand raise the mast, which we did. We have the adjustable back stay, which was completely loose.

"Completely" is open to interpretation. I disconnect mine. But I also use the old-style MRS, and crank down to make the forestay pin (more on that later). The leverage on that backstay is so good, and people are so weak, that even a loose catenary will make life difficult when attempting to pin the forestay.

We could not get the PIN in the head-stay without adding a second shackle.

Bad, bad, bad. As already pointed out, that headboard shackle can easily open on its own, releasing the forestay, and dropping the mast without warning!

Additionally, I was surprised that once up, there is no way to adjust head stay tension? On my previous mast-head sloop I had an adjustment below drum to tight the tension?

Danger, Will Robinson!!! You've attached the stem fitting (the thin attachment coming out of the deck, at the bow) to the anti-rotation strap of the furler! It's only there to prevent the drum housing assembly from rotating, and it's only held on by a couple of small machine screws. You're lucky it didn't rip off and drop the mast!!!

The round metal thing above that is the end of the tee-bolt turnbuckle screw. There should be a U-shaped piece of metal with three holes in it, one in the saddle that the turnbuckle tee-bolt passes through, with the U-piece passing through the anti-rotation strap, and then one hole in each leg at the bottom which pin to the stem fitting. This puts the load path of the forestay straight from the turnbuckle, through the U-piece (which is half of a toggle, actually), and directly into the stem fitting. The anti-rotation strap takes no load other than preventing the furler base from rotating. You need to look for that part in the box of parts that almost always comes with a used boat, and if not there, call CDI and get a new one. Right away.

Finally, I think this may be that the lowers were too tight? I am doing this from memory (only an hour ago) but I feel like the lowers were tighter than the uppers? I have read the BWY rig tuning tips and if I loosen the tension on the lowers then will pinning the head.

The upper and lower stays do not necessarily have the same tension when sitting at the dock. I don't recall which has more at this point, but I know they aren't the same. You need to adjust the rig yourself, starting with mast rake, which is controlled by the forestay adjustment primarily. The manual has the procedure, and I don't remember if the BWY procedure differs much from that.

So, what do I do? Do I sail it with the second shackle? Something simply doesn't seem right.

Fix that forestay to stem fitting before you do anything! And if you don't have one, get or make a MRS, which will aid in standing the mast up (hard enough without one), and especially in pinning the forestay. But you can use the spinnaker halyard to help pull the mast forward to pin the stem fitting, which is what my MRS uses to raise the mast anyway. So I just crank down hard on it (5:1 reeving), pin the forestay, slacken it, and the shrouds are just right. Then I attach and slightly tension the backstay.

Oh, and the spinnaker halyard (the part in your left hand in the pic above) should pass between the legs of the forestay mast hound, so it passes straight down the front of the mast, wrapping slightly to either side as it goes, to a cleat. For raising the mast, I take the bitter end, after cleating, and tie it to the vang bail (belt and suspenders - if the cleat pops off, the mast drops).

Edit: Here's a link to the CDI page where you can download the FFII manual. It shows the contruction details, how to install, and how to use it. Especially useful is the cross-section on page 4 and the forestay sketch on page 7 which both show the toggle on the bottom (and top) of the forestay/furler and how it's attached.

http://www.sailcdi.com/ffmain.htm

Good luck. And don't hesitate to ask. Given what the PO has done here, I suspect you may find some other 'interesting' things that may need a little tweaking.

"K9Campers" said: "Tom's caution was regarding the abscence of the T-bolt attaching the furler/forestay to the bow." Tom's caution message was actually directed at "Signaleer's" experience and photographs of his forestay describing how it was attached to the bow. See the above pictures . . .

His caution message to me was about a concern regarding the possible deteriorating condition of my forestay after the loop, when detached from the hound, spun in my hand. I then saw a broken wire in the loop.

I'll be setting aside my rig today to work on it at home. Meanwhile, we'll cruise as a trawler for the remaining season.

[bwygirl]

I see several things going on. The two shackles at the bow under the furler drum should NOT be there! One shackle, the first one attached to the drum at the anti-rotation strap, is not even locked in the picture and the anti-rotation strap is only held on by two little screws never intended to hold the full weight of the headstay! Inside the furler drum you should find a turnbuckle, this turnbuckle should have had its threaded end installed so that the stud goes into the drum and the end has the anti-rotation strap over it. Then the turnbuckle end is what is pined to the chainplate. At the top of the furler the headstay looks like it may have been kinked, check for loose wires! Give me a call and I would be happy to help you with more reasons as to why the headstay is not reaching. Blue Water Yachts, 206 282-4261 line 1 for Cheryl

[Signaleer]

I see several things going on. The two shackles at the bow under the furler drum should NOT be there! One shackle, the first one attached to the drum at the anti-rotation strap, is not even locked in the picture and the anti-rotation strap is only held on by two little screws never intended to hold the full weight of the headstay! Inside the furler drum you should find a turnbuckle, this turnbuckle should have had its threaded end installed so that the stud goes into the drum and the end has the anti-rotation strap over it. Then the turnbuckle end is what is pined to the chainplate. At the top of the furler the headstay looks like it may have been kinked, check for loose wires! Give me a call and I would be happy to help you with more reasons as to why the headstay is not reaching. Blue Water Yachts, 206 282-4261 line 1 for Cheryl

Thank you very much for the help but we have already rebuilt all the rigging, including the turn buckle

Here's a picture from tonights dolphin watching trip!