Daysailor or Cruiser?

[Mark Prouty]

I'm intregued with this thread. There is a powerfull allure to it. I like an accasional friendly dispute; helps keep the board entertaining. Things have been just civil enough that the thread hasn't been locked yet just dicy enough to keep me reading every word. A little humor, a little tit for tat, intellect, an occasional low blow but nothing that hostile. At this point, I think all can still walk away friends.

Moe has some well thought out points and I hope Roger monitors this board. I'm partial to my X but almost bought an M at http://www.boats4sail.info/

no pee monkey

[k9piper]

Well folks , I can see everyone's point that my boat your boat thing because everyone wants to have the best all around boat. I am very much interested in the poll as others are. The whole idea or issue on the boat is whatever is your choice or what you like , need and can afford.
Now as for MOE, well I happen to find Moe as a person who will share his ideas and knowledge openly and freely, as a matter of fact if I needed some help and wanted to get someone's advice on this board Moe would be one of the folks I would ask. If you are asking if I know Moe I'll tell you never met or talked to the person.
So let us all act like adults and stop bashing anyone who has a view whic we may or may not subscribe to.
So hang in there Moe you and some others on this board are doing just fine. Never give up offering free advice. I'll take as much as you will give and use as much sa I can.

Fish

[aya16]

Moe the 04 I have has a real refrig. and room for a cooler across from the head. The couch on that side is 10 feet long way more then I need so the last cushion was taken out and thats were cooler/refrig. go. The storage under that cooler is used to hold the 13 gallon water tank that is externally filled so no need to go in there. The ladder blocking the aft berth ( euro king size) will on my boat be removable. But even if I dont there is no real problem getting in and out and thats where we sleep, Unless I did the sea sick cure and then I sleep on the couch That has plenty of room for me 5' 8. The v berth holds tons of stuff in and outside so never used to sleep. The head has a large potty that I rarely use but Karen does and works fine for hanging jackets and things also. As far as a shower there are options but I will fill the sink with hot water and take a sponge bath. In Catalina there are showers on shore for quarter. Most places we will go that will be the way to take showers.
My point is like before you adapt to whats available. I was just at the boat today and took a few min. to look hard at what you pointed out and as far as room on that thing, its plenty. Kind of reminds me of a 22 foot motorhome. Not like your house but kind of cozy. And real cozy in bad weather.
As far as getting in and out of the cockpit: When moored I sit on the motor swing my leggs over and step into the dingy its real easy. From a dock I go over the side A little high but its ok.
I do like the cockpit seats being closer together because I can put my feet up against them if the heel is over 10 degr.
Now if Roger took the chance and built a 28 foot boat with a 8'6 beam and 90 to 150 motor that would blow all these boats out of the water as far as what is best. But it will be over 50 thousand dollars and That would compete with a whole other market. And as far as shipping containers, I think your right the beam will stay the same for awhile.

Give me an X or M and ill make do with either boat and would be happy with either. I picked the Mac M over the catalina and the hunter If all that was available was the X I would have picked that one over the hunter or cat.

I think you might be a little frutrated cause you cant go out yet, so I extend an invite to sunny calif to come cruise catalina move the snow hook her up come on out. anytime.

The M works although its not set up like you like it it does work. And I just spent a few hours putting wax on mine she sure is pretty.
Mike

[baldbaby2000]

The ladder blocking the aft berth ( euro king size) will on my boat be removable.

Is it OK to remove the ladder? It looks to me like it might be an important structural part of the boat.

BB

[aya16]

Il let you know about the ladder but I was just going to replace the bolt heads with plastic fittings and the ladder would still be in place all the time except at night I guess. Not sure if I will do it yet but have been thinking about it.

[kmclemore]

Now as for MOE, well I happen to find Moe as a person who will share his ideas and knowledge openly and freely, as a matter of fact if I needed some help and wanted to get someone's advice on this board Moe would be one of the folks I would ask.

Here, here! Moe has offered one heck of a lot of help here on the forum in the short time he's been here and though I've never met the guy, I'd be pleased to share a few beers with him someday. He may be new to Macs, but he's jumped in with both feet and I'm happy he's here (opinions and all!).

[Frank C]

me too, kevin.
Goes for you too, and many others.


(Matter of fact, I could count naysayers on my thumbs).

[nemo]

When compared to all the other choices out there, the M and the X are basically the same boat to me. I bought a new M mostly because that's what they are selling now and I didn't want to inherit someone else's problems. And, I don't like buying anything until it's in at least its 3rd year of production (I'm an engineer and know it takes awhile to get initial quirks out).

Maybe it's mostly marketing hype but I've also had the perception that perhaps the M gets a slight nod on smoothness of ride (V shape hull) and safety with empty ballast (slightly lower CG with minor amount of built-in ballast). I didn't give a rip on interior layout differences because I think either could be modified to meet my needs.

So comfort and safety are the [perhaps perceived] values that nudged me into buying a new M. I'm surprised that these points haven't come up as pluses for the M for cruising. (not noticible enough?.) Interior designs can always be tweeked to suit, but the hull shape and ballast deisgn can not be modified.

You can bet the M interior will receive tweeks every model year until they come out with the next hull design - give constructive feedback and give MacGregor a chance to evolve - they will. Bad mouth them and each other enough and potential buyers lurking in this forum will get turned away from MacGregors.

I have no buyers remorse. First 3 trips out were a blast.

[kmclemore]

You know, I've been thinking about the "Moe hasn't even sailed his" issue, and after running it over in my mind, it kinda makes sense. After all, as with me, the Mac is not Moe's only boat - he has a perfectly good Boston Whaler that he can get his 'water fix' with until his Mac is ready. And - not to presume - but I get the impression that Moe is the sort of guy who does a ton of research up-front, planning things out very carefully, and then getting things completely sorted the way he likes them before he sets out - kinda like buying a seashore house and fixing it all up before you move in, instead of trying to fix it while you're living in it. So... I expect he's enjoying the Whaler on the water while he also gets the Mac all ready for the 2005 summer season, rather than trying to sail the Mac and fix it up at the same time. Now maybe that's not the approach you or even I might take (frankly, I tend to be pretty damned impatient!), but logically it makes a lot of sense to me.

[MAC26X]

The only thing I'm learning from this thread is that there are (only) a few M owners that are immature and extremely sensitive if anything about their boat is questioned. Anyone that sensitive needs a life. These boats are both compromises. I can easily tolerate an M owner claiming all the "improvements" included in the M over the X, even though I don't think they are valid. So if you are one of those folks, lighten up on Moe and on any challenge. The boats are 90% the same and each has its 10% advantage over the other. I enjoy reading factual posts from all of you.

[Chip]

I am surprised that just over 30% of poll participants are cruisers. I think I'd get a different boat if I were in that category. I think, in any case, that the poll results support my hypothesis - 70% of the participants are not regular cruisers. Thus, the distinctions in interior layout aren't that important and remain a matter of personal preference. (We won't get in to whether the sample size is large enough or representative - it's big enough to be interesting and thanks to everyone who took the time to vote.) Am I interpreting the poll data incorrectly?

Moe, continue to take your time in preparing for your maiden Mac voyage. It is a real pain in the arse. It still takes me over an hour just to raise the mast, secure the rigging, put out the fenders, etc., etc., and it still takes me over an hour once I dock. That doesn't include cleaning or prep-at-home time. There has got to be a better way. Mac-ing takes a lot of prep on the front and back end of a day. No wonder people have four-page prep lists and "systems." Roger's ad regarding 10 minutes to rig, or whatever it is that he claims, is a bunch of crap. I know that this topic has been threaded and rethreaded. Just had to vent.

For all of you 26M daysailors, WM has an Igloo cooler that fits perfectly in the aft berth cooler cutout.

One last completely unrelated observation. Sailing in 10 mph winds with the genoa alone causes greatly excessive heeling. I'm talking the 45 to 60 degree kind and wife in tears kind. Also, with genoa alone, in 10 mph winds, the Mac 26M doesn't point into the wind (close reach, I think it's called) worth a damn. I'm hoping that when I finally get my mainsail up, the sailing performance will be better than what I've experienced so far with the genny alone (which, again, is wicked heeling and bad pointing). There, I've bashed my own boat.

[Mark Prouty]

It is time for another virtual group hug.

[Jim Bunnell]

You Yours -

Please do not quote me out of context. You are as entitled to your opinion as I or anyone else, but please use only your own. My post, early in this thread, was simply intended to share with Moe and others how I had experienced the early M interior. I take no exception to Moe's belief that the X is better for him. He probably isn't cruising with a 9 year old, a 14 year old and no Mate. I would assume from the nature of these boats and the number of modifications owners make that each of us has a unique boat (re)made to serve our unique circumstances.

Thank you

[Mark Prouty]

My boat needs headsail or she'll have excessive weather helm. I'll reef the main before I take down the genoa and put up the regular jib.