'BOAT' needs your help and advice

[sailboatmike]

Hey, who are you calling a dumb meter

[Baha]

BOAT,

I am with you...there are folks to love and embrace technical stuff like this, and those (like me, or instance) who don't. I am very old school. I have 2 batteries on Logan's Run. One is a deep cycle for all the lights, instruments, etc and will not currently start the engine. The other is my starter battery. I have a selector switch. I have an emergence jump start box, a battery charger (stand alone type), a handheld multi-meter, and a hydrometer (no gel batteries yet). This is a combination I understand, and that will get me through almost anything. The more I read about meters, the more I don't want to trust them.

I could change my mind after using the autopilot this summer....but I doubt it.

[Herschel]

Im pretty sure it refers to "state of charge" in this instance.

That would be the correct answer

Thank you, Herschel

[BOAT]

Well, I started on a templet for the "dash" thing. I decided that I will have a couple of volt meters: the 'dummy' kind because I am a dummy, but being a dummy I don't want to stop there - since you guys all say it takes huge amounts of computer and brain power to really calculate what is happening with the batteries and that the meters are "dummies" (like me) I have decided to enlist the aid of a very smart object to add to my "dash" thing:
An IPAD.
I am going to put an IPAD dock in the dash - and since I already have a MOOSHI METER in my tool box (that I don't even know how to use) I am going to just hook up the MOOSHI METER to the batteries and just leave that thing in the battery box. Then if I really need a complicated set of metrics about AMP usage or VOLTAGE or temperature or any of that other stuff you guys all say I need to know to tell if the battery is working I can just get it right on the IPAD because the IPAD talks to the MOOSHI METER with blue tooth's. (Why are the teeth blue? and why are they even teeth in the first place? Anyways, i know they talk to each other because I already seen them do it). So THAT takes care of all that OTHER metering "stuff" like AMPS and CURRENT and TEMP and whatever.

I really don't need a 'mount' in the dash to use the IPAD but since the IPAD is on board all the time now and I use it to monitor my chartplotter and create waypoints for the AP on it when I am below decks, I figure - what the heck? Might as well make a place for it to get charged when I am out on deck. (I don't use the IPAD outside because the chartplotter does and shows everything I need out there and the plotter is way brighter than the IPAD.

So, now for THE BUILD! How to mount an IPAD in the dash on a MAC! Another project!! Here I go!!

(You guys want any pictures of the build?) I never remember to take any while building.

[Seapup]

I am going to put an IPAD dock in the dash - and since I already have a MOOSHI METER in my tool box (that I don't even know how to use) I am going to just hook up the MOOSHI METER to the batteries and just leave that thing in the battery box. Then if I really need a complicated set of metrics about AMP usage or VOLTAGE or temperature or any of that other stuff you guys all say I need to know to tell if the battery is working I can just get it right on the IPAD because the IPAD talks to the MOOSHI METER with blue tooth's. (Why are the teeth blue? and why are they even teeth in the first place? Anyways, i know they talk to each other because I already seen them do it). So THAT takes care of all that OTHER metering "stuff" like AMPS and CURRENT and TEMP and whatever.

Mooshi Frankenstein Monster???

Victron already did all the work and dummed it down into their monitor & bluetooth app combo with user friendly controls (same dongle/app for their BMV battery monitors as solar MMPT chargers)

[BOAT]

I am going to put an IPAD dock in the dash - and since I already have a MOOSHI METER in my tool box (that I don't even know how to use) I am going to just hook up the MOOSHI METER to the batteries and just leave that thing in the battery box. Then if I really need a complicated set of metrics about AMP usage or VOLTAGE or temperature or any of that other stuff you guys all say I need to know to tell if the battery is working I can just get it right on the IPAD because the IPAD talks to the MOOSHI METER with blue tooth's. (Why are the teeth blue? and why are they even teeth in the first place? Anyways, i know they talk to each other because I already seen them do it). So THAT takes care of all that OTHER metering "stuff" like AMPS and CURRENT and TEMP and whatever.

Mooshi Frankenstein Monster???

Victron already did all the work and dummed it down into their monitor & bluetooth app combo with user friendly controls (same dongle/app for their BMV battery monitors as solar MMPT chargers)

So your saying I use the Victron unit instead of the Moosi Meter, right? I'm sure the app will work on an ipad too - but what about the Victron thing? Is it a lot of wiring and creating shunts and all that other stuff too?

[Seapup]

Is it a lot of wiring and creating shunts and all that other stuff too?

According to http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_monitor

This monitor is VERY easy to install. It has just two wires, a UTP cable & a power cable. The UTP cable is 10 meters or roughly 33 feet long, allowing plenty of display mounting options. The UTP cable is the only wire that needs to be run the monitor display. It's literally "plug & play". The UTP cable is very similar to a phone cable, only slightly more robust. The red power supply wire simply connects to the positive battery post and the +B1 terminal of the Shunt.

[BOAT]

So I need two of these?

[Seapup]

So I need two of these?

For 2 banks? No. BMV702 is a 2 bank monitor.

[sailboatmike]

I was looking at a 2 battery relay that stops the second battery draining the starter battery, but it says one wire goes to ground, not negative, ground.

How do we ground out a fiberglass boat???

[BOAT]

Even I know that one - the accepted ground for a fiberglass sailboat is the outboard motor. Reason, that is where the true positive and negative (or alternating current) polarities originate by way of the generator/alternator - diodes - AND the motor is usually the largest metal object in contact with both the boat, the electrical system, and the water.

See, I'm not THAT dumb!!

[Bilgemaster]

Look, I'd be the first to admit that I'm a bit obsessive about my batteries. Testing their voltage is usually the first and last thing I do when boarding or unboarding her. For this I use a nice little bright yellow Harbor Freight multimeter that I got as a freebie awhile back, which I keep alongside the pair under that little seat aft of the galley. I check the water level every month or so. But I can tell you this: I've got to make every dollar count to bring this whole sailing thing off. So, before I'd spend north of the 300 bucks someone mentioned on some ultra-whizbang battery meter or electrolytic mood analyzer, I'd probably just get a nice fresh pair of batteries, my current regimen and modest equipment seemingly having been more than sufficient til now.

I'm all for gizmos, but damn!

[BOAT]

Look, I'd be the first to admit that I'm a bit obsessive about my batteries. Testing their voltage is usually the first and last thing I do when boarding or unboarding her. For this I use a nice little bright yellow Harbor Freight multimeter that I got as a freebie awhile back, which I keep alongside the pair under that little seat aft of the galley. I check the water level every month or so. But I can tell you this: I've got to make every dollar count to bring this whole sailing thing off. So, before I'd spend north of the 300 bucks someone mentioned on some ultra-whizbang battery meter or electrolytic mood analyzer, I'd probably just get a nice fresh pair of batteries, my current regimen and modest equipment seemingly having been more than sufficient til now.

I'm all for gizmos, but damn!

Well, gee whiz bilgman, that's sort of what I was thinking too but all this talk about being stuck with no battery and all I was told is a really 'bad' thing - so in the past did I ever care if the battery was any good? Uh, that's a big NO, what did I need a battery for?? The motor had a lawn mower rope pull, (even I can do that - I'm good at pullin' ropes) The pilot was a flimsy piece of crap that sailed behind the transom and if you were lucky it kept a course within 40 degrees - (the old wind pilots were for LONG distances only - you would never use one for a short trip like 10 miles or less fer sure) because the old wind pilot needed many miles to "Average Out" the course. The only light I needed was to read one of the fourty odd marked up charts I kept on board - often a candle would do - and the only "instrument" I needed that required power was a watch - and the power came from a spring. So I got 'boat' 3 years ago after an absence from boat ownership for near 25 years and - whaaaa??
NOW?
I have a AP that holds within 1/2 degree and can steer me right to the dock??? A wind meter that can display on my cell phone? Chartplotter that can tell me where I am within 3 feet? AIS radio that can 'see' any ship around me for 20 miles??? Electronic charts in an IPAD that can cover the whole west coast? THINGS HAVE CHANGED!?! Really Really spoiled now - now I can't live without electricity -

So - I still think like you said but feel embarrassed cuz others say I should not think like you said - so just trying to do the right thing in this "new age" an all. I figured the cheapest way out of this is to put the IPAD dock in the boat cuz the IPAD is already in there and the MOOSIE METER is just rotting away in ,my toolbox anyways, so it cost me nothin but labor to build the recharge mount.

I promise I won't spend more money than what one cheap battery cost, okay?

[kadet]

BOAT

I have a AP that holds within 1/2 degree and can steer me right to the dock??? A wind meter that can display on my cell phone? Chartplotter that can tell me where I am within 3 feet? AIS radio that can 'see' any ship around me for 20 miles??? Electronic charts in an IPAD that can cover the whole west coast? THINGS HAVE CHANGED!?! Really Really spoiled now - now I can't live without electricity -

Couple of quick points for your particular situation;

• You have an E-tec it can be rope started.
  You have an E-tec faulty electrics can cost kill your EMM about 1/3 of the new cost of the motor.
  Put the E-tec on a plain old start battery on it's own. No combiners not separate charges etc..
  Set-up your house bank however you like. You don't live on BOAT do you? So basic monitoring and maintenance is all you need.
  For $300 throw in a couple of extra batteries

[BOAT]

BOAT

I have a AP that holds within 1/2 degree and can steer me right to the dock??? A wind meter that can display on my cell phone? Chartplotter that can tell me where I am within 3 feet? AIS radio that can 'see' any ship around me for 20 miles??? Electronic charts in an IPAD that can cover the whole west coast? THINGS HAVE CHANGED!?! Really Really spoiled now - now I can't live without electricity -

Couple of quick points for your particular situation;

• You have an E-tec it can be rope started.
  You have an E-tec faulty electrics can cost kill your EMM about 1/3 of the new cost of the motor.
  Put the E-tec on a plain old start battery on it's own. No combiners not separate charges etc..
  Set-up your house bank however you like. You don't live on BOAT do you? So basic monitoring and maintenance is all you need.
  For $300 throw in a couple of extra batteries

Okay, so there is a good point you bring up - the motor battery -

I am a motor-home guy so I have always thought it was wrong to mix your coach battery with your engine battery. I was a bit surprised to find that when I got 'boat' there was a hard switch between two batteries that connect to the motor. Everyone in a motor-home knows you never switch batteries when the engine is running or your diode packs will fry. Why would boats (and I mean ALL boats) come with a stupid perko switch that can do a hard swap from battery to battery when the engine is running? If you did that in a motor home you would be replacing your alternator the next day.

But, who am I to comment on marine electrical systems? So I go with the flow - you guys say to use PERKO switch's so that's what I do. (You guys DO know that if you use that switch when the motor is running it will pretty much fry every electronic component on your boat including the diodes on the alternator, right?) You guys already know that, right?

Anyways, I have no problem adding a third battery just for the motor, but that leaves the obvious question - how do you charge the "coach" batteries when there is no AC around?

In the motorhomes we use small relays that allow a small amount of power to trickle back into the coach battery on a small wire when the engine is running but the relay will only allow the circuit to open when the engine battery stops accepting a charge from the alternator. I'm not sure how to do that on the boat, nor do I know the performance of the alternator on the ETEC. I don't know if it puts out enough power to charge the starter battery in the short time it's running - so it may NEVER start charging the "coach" batteries. It is a quandary. (Does that rhyme with laundry?)