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Todd wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:08 pm Where exactly is the bilge on ? Seems like it's got such a flat bottom fumes would be travelling all over the place back and forth.

Yeah!~ Because I left the stove full there will be a fire all over the place! I think I need to throw that darn stove overboard.

Tom wrote:

I do store the canisters in the cockpit with the gasoline tanks, though

I store my canisters in a canvas bag that fastens to the mast support arch. It holds three or four canisters. They are secure and out if the way.

Ray

I saw one article of a Mac sailboat that stored the propane 1lb cans in a piece of 4" white PVC tube strapped to the safety rail in the cockpit.
They put screw on ends and each "tube" held 2 cans.
Was a very clean (nice white.. out of the way) solution.



(* not a fan of his "head" modification...)

Currently I am looking for a used alcohol single burner stove.. If I get a good deal.. done.. if not.. wait.. BBQ.. Butane outside..


AD

NOT SAFE ENOUGH - ALCOHOL WILL DESTROY US!
I STORE MY ALCOHOL CANISTER IN A "LOCK - BOX"






And when that dangerous stove is not in use I keep safe. Alcohol stoves should
hang off the yardarm when not in use!



I'm not gonna let that stove blow up MY boat! You guys are taking risks.

Sorry BOAT: I'm missing your point.

The Origo is a safe a cooking appliance when used properly in a ventilated area. The likelihood of having an issue with non-pressurized methanol is virtually nil under normal circumstances.

Methanol is not without risk, and if you spill a fair amount (less than a quart) and let it vaporize before you can get it cleaned up, you need to be in a no spark, no flame mode. While an outright explosion is unlikely, you could get burned or start an onboard fire.

If you want a visual of the point I unsuccessfully tried to make; see the video where students set off a 5 gallon container of ethanol and methanol vapors. Now, extrapolate that to a bilge size container. That is what you'd experience if you filled your bilge with vapors and set it off. You'd have to have a spill, or store open canisters in the bilge to do it, though.

And, if you're storing open canisters of methanol in your bilge, here's your sign...

what does that have to do with propane? Do you know what would happen with that experiment if they used propane?

(Hint - note the condition of the plastic bottle afterwards).

I think this post has lost direction. It’s like a sentence with mixed metaphors. No one knows what is going on. Propane, butane, methanol, ethanol.

Sit back guys; take a breath, and come back clear headed.

Ray

ANE has to do with the number of carbon atoms in the structure of the molecule, thus:

PROPane
BUTane
METHane

Similar setup for ANOL:

METHanol
ETHanol

How many carbon chains are in the Alcohol molecule? (And how long does it take Highlander to break the carbon chains and turn them into hydrogen?)

I think you guys need to do more experiments and see what other things we can burn in our boats.

BOAT wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:04 pm what does that have to do with propane? Do you know what would happen with that experiment if they used propane?

(Hint - note the condition of the plastic bottle afterwards).

Sorry Ray. BOAT and I are going to see who can whiz the farthest.

Exactly. That is what I've been trying to say. Methanol will give you a whoosh. Now, let a 20lb jug of propane leak down aboard (pipe or fitting leak, etc), and you've got a quick way to separate the hull to deck joint... without using tools.



Skip to around 5 min mark - they had a malfunction on the first try. Looks like they cut loose 2 of the 1 lb cylinders in the cabin from what I could tell.

So if you're storing your propane cylinders in bilge water, you might want to make sure your insurance is paid up.

HA! I can top THAT!

What if your Alcohol stove gets hit, by LIGHTING!! ??

Yeah, I bet you never thought of THAT one!



You can store all the canisters and tins of alcohol and stuff you want in PVC tubes and lock boxes but that won't stop the lighting bolt from blowing up you meal time fuel!!

So - I think there is a way that we are missing - a safer way - if Highlander were here he would know because he smuggled rum in barrels in pirate ships and he has kegs of scotch below decks and he had not blown up yet.

Maybe tom knows how much rum can be stored in a barrel without exploding?

The thing about lightning is, you don't need alcohol or propane to do the deed. And... it doesn't just hit boats. I have some particular experience in the matter...





I think we'll be ok as long as the lightning doesn't hit Highlander!

But I digress... whichever fuel you decide to use, should it be gimballed?

I was going to make an offer on a keel boat, but do to a lightning storm to the north (toward Lake Ontario), I waited until the afternoon. Arrived to find broken pieces on the ground around the boat, resembling anemometer parts and such, only to discover it was the boat I was about to make an offer on that was hit. In its cradle. In a sea of mostly sailboats in cradles or stands. And it was far from the tallest mast out there, too. But lightning has a mind of its own, in a manner of speaking.

Gimballed stove? Uh oh.

Tomfoolery wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:50 am I was going to make an offer on a keel boat, but do to a lightning storm to the north (toward Lake Ontario), I waited until the afternoon. Arrived to find broken pieces on the ground around the boat, resembling anemometer parts and such, only to discover it was the boat I was about to make an offer on that was hit. In its cradle. In a sea of mostly sailboats in cradles or stands. And it was far from the tallest mast out there, too. But lightning has a mind of its own, in a manner of speaking.

Gimballed stove? Uh oh.

Same case with my house - not the highest target. However, the 2'x6' grounded metal chimney cap offered up a nice ground...

I've been trying to find an alcohol stove while BOAT and I were dancing, without success. So, looks like either used alcohol, or one of the "anes" as BOAT calls them.

In my typical mode of over-complicating everything, I'm really considering at least a single axis gimbal. Since the Macs are a bit tender for the first several degrees, does anyone find that the grits or spaghetti sauce is sloshing out of the pot on their cook stove?

Or, in your case, can you make your coffee water in a rolling anchorage?

Does anyone see the need for more than one burner?

I had a gimballed range in my last boat (Hunter 340), and used both propane burners once in a while. I used the oven for storing the pots, and only fired it up once just to see how to do it, and if it worked. It did.

But that gimballing was great on the water. My FIL was below decks boiling up pasta water and warming sauce on a trip to Canada, while I was at the helm with a good bit of heel going on. Not much pitching, but a good bit of rolling. That range did have the adjustable pot holder arms, which is a must-have for anything other than flat calm.

On this little boat, I just boil water in a pot on my butane stove kit (with plastic carry box). I only started with butane because the boat came with a rusty little butane stove and lots of butane fuel canisters, so I found a brand new one for something like $12 at some pro chef supply site (probably for catering). I like it, and use it below decks sometimes, or in the cockpit. But as with any fuel gas equipment, with ventilation.

My little RV has a 2-burner induction cooktop, which is pretty nifty. But that takes a lot of battery power (1800W max, or 150A+ at 12VDC* through a 3000 watt inverter), so it’s not practical on a small boat unless using it with shore power only.

But IF using it only with shore power, it’s probably the safest way to cook. No fuel required, so no fuel dangers or storage issues. The glass top only gets hot from the hot pot sitting on it, not from making heat under the glass (the pot itself is magnetically excited/heated, not the cooktop, for those unfamiliar with the technology). Max power is well below what a 30A (3600 volt-amp or watt) shore power connection can do. Single burner units, portable or built-in, are pretty cheap, too. I’m not aware of any induction units with pot holder arms, though, but it’s possible they exist.

*but I have 600 Ah of LiFePo4 battery, so cooking doesn’t make much of a dent in a full charge, and my engine has a second alternator just for house power and battery.

I would prefer non pressurized alcohol. I looked hard at the Origo oven unit, but couldn't justify the cost. I like to cook and I like to be on the water. What could be better than doing both at the same time? I think I can be happy with small bottle, direct-connect pressurized gas, if that's all I can get. Just a few extra precautions. Like you, I'll store the fuel bottles outside when not in use. I don't want any pressurized gas piping or hoses - just a personal preference.

I don't envision having dead calm anchorage in my area, except on very rare occasions. Watching sailing videos, while they're cooking underway, makes the gimballing look pretty nice. You mention boiling pasta underway, which is the ultimate test.

I'm just going to have to broaden my search to include pressurized gas units. I'd like stainless for appearance. Contemplating rebuilding my sliding galley and table to incorporate more usable storage, so gimballing could be incorporated during design. You and Highlander bring up an interesting point regarding having the stove remain portable. Maybe a gimballed mount that the stove just sits (securely) in.

Anyway, thanks for the info on cooking underway and otherwise.