Newest owner of a 26X

[Be Free]

The wires are easy to get out of the way. The steering, shift, and throttle cables are a little trickier since they have to have a minimum bend radius in order to work. I've been able to get them "less" in the way, but never out of the way. I do the best I can with the stiff cables and then use them as a base to zip tie the rest out of the way.

[OverEasy]

While things are accessible take a good look at the crimped or swage ends for corrosion or breakage. Those “U” bolt crimp things are notorious for damaging cables (round bolt-to-cable and the cast clamp-to-cable are high stress concentration areas) as well as when non-SST hardware corrodes the cable also tends to corrode as well.

A way to check for broken cable strands along the length is to take a soft cloth (like those microfiber rags) wrapped around the cable and slide it along the full length in both directions. The fibers snag on the broken strands. nicks and pits (rather than getting your hand or fingers impaled).

Investigate any kinked areas for nicks too.

You have done so much good for your boat!
While some may say boats are inanimate objects they still respond to the love one gives them often by looking out for you when one needs it most and forgiving many of our mistakes.

Excellent idea on including the Admiral in the big moments! Like first launch and other events. The Amiral may or may not know about or be interested in the technical or problematic struggles but their support is crucial to enjoying your vessel. One needs to remember to reward and include them for their patience and tolerance. Many Admirals often take a keen interest in ones vessel to a surprising extent!

Happy voyages!
Over Easy

[Tomfoolery]

Those “U” bolt crimp things are notorious for damaging cables (round bolt-to-cable and the cast clamp-to-cable are high stress concentration areas) as well as when non-SST hardware corrodes the cable also tends to corrode as well.

Sounds like you're describing wire rope clips, often improperly called "clamps". They're usually considered 80% efficient, meaning you should expect no more than 80% of the breaking strength of the rope from such a connection when pulled to destruction, and that's when they're properly used, which they oh-so-often are not. Both roller swaged and copper sleeve with thimbles (Nicopress), like Mac standing rigging, are usually 90%, and hot or epoxy speltered terminations are 100% efficient.

At least in the heavy lifting industry, which is my patch.

I don't think wire rope clips have any place on a sailboat, but that's just my opinion.

[OverEasy]

Thanks TomFoolery!

[Russ]

Those “U” bolt crimp things are notorious for damaging cables (round bolt-to-cable and the cast clamp-to-cable are high stress concentration areas) as well as when non-SST hardware corrodes the cable also tends to corrode as well.

Sounds like you're describing wire rope clips, often improperly called "clamps". They're usually considered 80% efficient, meaning you should expect no more than 80% of the breaking strength of the rope from such a connection when pulled to destruction, and that's when they're properly used, which they oh-so-often are not. Both roller swaged and copper sleeve with thimbles (Nicopress), like Mac standing rigging, are usually 90%, and hot or epoxy speltered terminations are 100% efficient.

At least in the heavy lifting industry, which is my patch.

I don't think wire rope clips have any place on a sailboat, but that's just my opinion.

Always great info from Tom.

Okay...so I have 2 of these clips on my sun sail shade in the backyard. So does the 80% increase with two of them?

[PSNA]

https://shop.hallberg-rassy.com/content ... p2160.html

I have that kit for mine they started out a bit rough but actually smoothed up after a handful of sails. I still haven't used the kit yet but keep meaning to...18mos after I bought it. For reference the Mac winches are lewmar #6 if they're the original.

Actually, MacGregor used three different winch brands over the years. Barient, Lewmar, and finally, those plastic/rubber ones which are junk.

[Tomfoolery]

Those “U” bolt crimp things are notorious for damaging cables (round bolt-to-cable and the cast clamp-to-cable are high stress concentration areas) as well as when non-SST hardware corrodes the cable also tends to corrode as well.

Sounds like you're describing wire rope clips, often improperly called "clamps". They're usually considered 80% efficient, meaning you should expect no more than 80% of the breaking strength of the rope from such a connection when pulled to destruction, and that's when they're properly used, which they oh-so-often are not. Both roller swaged and copper sleeve with thimbles (Nicopress), like Mac standing rigging, are usually 90%, and hot or epoxy speltered terminations are 100% efficient.

At least in the heavy lifting industry, which is my patch.

I don't think wire rope clips have any place on a sailboat, but that's just my opinion.

Always great info from Tom.

Okay...so I have 2 of these clips on my sun sail shade in the backyard. So does the 80% increase with two of them?

I'm afraid not. In fact, the size of the rope dictates the number and spacing of clips, but it's still 80%.

There's nothing wrong with that, by the way, and we sometimes use clips on 1-1/2" diameter and larger ropes with minimum breaking strength in the 120 ton or higher range. That takes 8 clips, spaced over 48 inches or more, torqued to something like 400 lb-ft (I'd have to look up the exact values, though). I don't know how the ironworkers do it, but they do it. Even wedge-socket terminations are like wrestling an alligator with 1-3/4" rope, but they manage.

The smallest number of clips is 2, though, starting at 1/8" wire rope, and jumps to 3 at 1/2" rope.

Edit: Here's a link to Crosby's guide to clip installation. https://www.fdlake.com/wrclips.html And remember: Never saddle a dead horse.

[Be Free]

Those “U” bolt crimp things are notorious for damaging cables (round bolt-to-cable and the cast clamp-to-cable are high stress concentration areas) as well as when non-SST hardware corrodes the cable also tends to corrode as well.

Sounds like you're describing wire rope clips, often improperly called "clamps". They're usually considered 80% efficient, meaning you should expect no more than 80% of the breaking strength of the rope from such a connection when pulled to destruction, and that's when they're properly used, which they oh-so-often are not. Both roller swaged and copper sleeve with thimbles (Nicopress), like Mac standing rigging, are usually 90%, and hot or epoxy speltered terminations are 100% efficient.

At least in the heavy lifting industry, which is my patch.

I don't think wire rope clips have any place on a sailboat, but that's just my opinion.

A BIG +1 on that. If you have one of these on any of your stays you have an expensive and dangerous problem just waiting to happen.

[Be Free]

Tom,

Correct me if I'm wrong but it is my understanding that it is the fact that the wire has to be turned 180 degrees through the clamp that causes the de-rating in strength. Properly installed the clamps do work to keep the wire rope from slipping. The problem occurs by not accounting for the decreased strength and the fact that most non-professionals do not install them correctly.

Bill

[Tomfoolery]

Tom,

Correct me if I'm wrong but it is my understanding that it is the fact that the wire has to be turned 180 degrees through the clamp that causes the de-rating in strength. Properly installed the clamps do work to keep the wire rope from slipping. The problem occurs by not accounting for the decreased strength and the fact that most non-professionals do not install them correctly.

Bill

It's turned, then asymmetrically crushed by the saddle. The 'dead horse', or the bitter end of the rope, is crushed by the u-bolt, but that end doesn't see much tension anyway once it passes around the thimble. Tight turns and being crushed, even a little, reduces the strength because some wires see more load than others rather than being equally distributed.

Even roller swaged terminations are less than 100%, but are often graded as 100% mostly, IMO, because wire rope minimum breaking strength is almost always lower than the actual tensile strength when tested to destruction. The only terminations used in the field (mine, at least) that are truly 100% are speltered, where molten metal or epoxy is poured into the fitting where the end of the rope is splayed and inserted. No deformation of the rope construction or wires, other than 'brooming' the end.

Last pic, step 7, is showing molten metal being poured into socket from a ladle. Hard to know what that is unless you've seen it before.







Edit: Oh, and wedge socket terminations, which are super common and far easier to install than a thimble and string of clips, even with very large rope, is about 80% efficient (or a little under, depending on who you ask). Also due to squeezing the rope and turning it more than 180 degrees. The wire rope clip on the end is just to keep it from jumping out by accident, like with sudden release of the load like with a clamshell bucket on a crane, or the dead end of a boom suspension system when the boom is unloaded (almost straight up, into the wind, and yes, that happens - a lot).

[TheLandlady]

We organized the mess by adding a couple SST eyes with backing fender washers and nylock nuts into the ceiling of the aft berth where we could reach in through the provided access panels. Then tie wrapped things into place. Much neater and usable space now!

Well worth the effort!

Awesome this is definitely a project I’m going to work on, by tie wraps do you mean like plastic zip ties? and do you fasten the cables to the eyes using zip ties or did you disconnect everything and thread them through the eyes and then tie the cables together? Can you post any pics??

[OverEasy]

Hi TheLandLady!

We used Heavy Duty UV Resistant Tiewraps (zip ties) to gather and hold the cables & wires together then attached to the SST eyes.
We didn’t thread the cables & wires through the SST eyes are that would have made it more difficult for us to potentially remove and/or serviceability of them in the future. The steering cable is pretty stiff and the engine shift & throttle cables are kind of whipped. All the cables work better with as wide and gentle a bend radius as can be afforded.

We guess one could use (or open up) the SST eyes into more of a “U” shape, slip the cables and wires in and then use wire ties (zip ties) to secure them in place. We just felt that the closed eyes would do better at holding the wire ties and wouldn’t slip off.

The black UV Resistant wire ties tend to hold up better over protracted periods of time vs. the standard white nylon (IMO).

Yes, we will try and get some pictures to post.

This was a good project to clean up the aft berth area and it made it much more usable.
We’ll worth the effort!

Best Regards,
Over Easy

[OverEasy]

Hi TomFoolery

Great bit about the end termination, especially about the broomed and filled end terminations.
As you already know there is no perfect end termination.
Any time a cable or line bends around a thimble, roller or corner there is some level of capacity loss.

You have a more extensive experience with the day in/out aspects of cable assemblies
In applications where I’ve had designs rely on cables I typically derate the cable capacity to 60% or lower for termination losses where there is no critical suspended load (such as would be the case with forestays, side stays or aft stays).
When having to deal with suspended critical loads (like carrying people or over personnel) I’ve generally defaulted to an 8x approach or greater to mitigate risk factors.

Most professional shops that deal with cables will factor in margin requirements when asked to design a cable assembly based on the required max use capacity needs. I’ve never had a professional shop just use the raw cable spec without deratings.

[Be Free]

Overeasy,
If you have UV issues in your aft berth you've got more pressing problems than cable management.

[dlandersson]

Overeasy,
If you have UV issues in your aft berth you've got more pressing problems than cable management.