Naive Aussie seeking US wisdom

[kmclemore]

Well, you can be sure that pleasing you was at the very forefront of my thoughts, Me Mine. I'm so delighted that I've made your day!

....after the massage and creative thinking going on here...

Hey.... I missed the massages... was somebody giving massages? Dang, I always miss these things... sigh....

[Robert]

Maybe someday I'll buy another Mac26X. Unless something better comes along like Mast28, but that I can afford.
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Here's how I'd make the Mac26 better:
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1.) put some sort of sealed or sprayed on thermal lining into the hull at manufacture to reduce noise transmission and reduce condensation in humid climates, also to support end users adding air conditoning. Add a better seal at the companionway also.
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2.) I'd leave the head right where it is and same size but build a drain and pump able sump under the bottom of it such that it hugs the hull but allows bilge water on the outside of it to pass. This would make it easy to add a hot water bottle shower and to clean the head by washdown. With an access hatch to get to the sump pump inside of course.
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3.) I'd change the swing keel to add a little weight to help it go down quickly and as a fancy upgrade, add a piezo metalic device inside of it that could deform it to add lift to help get the boat back level on long sails in one direction. Not necessarily as a go fast thing, but more speed might be a side effect. Might be able to add the piezo shaping to the rudders also.
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4.) I'd adjust the sail plan so that the bottom of the boom is at least 6 1/2 feet (2m) above the deck behind the steering wheel. Add furling mainsail as an ease of use option along with the furling genoa.
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5.) I'd make a standard strong light plastic folding, easily removeable swim deck that goes up with the rudders when they go up. This folding swim deck would cover the steering linkage and extend out around the outboard just enough for one person to sit on either side of the outboard to aid in getting on and off the boat from swimming. The perimiter of the swim deck would have handhold slots in it and a ladder with flats to step on would unfold three or four steps down into the water.
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6.) I'd make it truly beachable by adding a sturdy layer of something replaceable under the waterline. I don't know what that something would be, but I would really like to be able to beach even on round rocks for a short time to get on and off. UHMW Poly? This might have to be an option that costs speed in trade for beachability. It's weight would be in the right place.
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7.) I'd make a transom strong enough for 140hp including an embedded metal chainsaw repellant device. Inside the transom there would be a starting battery mount for a 6 inch wide 25lb. 465 CCA small AGM battery and wire routing devices to keep the cables off the bottom of the bilge. Large battery cable would be already run from the starting battery to the vbirth where the house batteries would have a built in mounting spot, this cable would be as short as possible by having it atached to the bottom of the liner and run forward under the walkway amidship.
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8.) I'd use two balllast fill valves of good quality, either one could be used to fill ballast, both could be used to fill it much faster. Larger ballast vent forward to accomodate the faster fill. Maybe put a 3way ball valve on the vent to select either vent inside and use the dipstick, or vent outside. The handle of this ball valve would indicate position and be visible from the cockpit.
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9.) I'm out of time....
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Does Tatra translate roughly into Corvair? I like the lines of Tatra, and even the rear engine, it would be a cool car to bring back retro style but with modern engineering.

[kmclemore]

All excellent ideas, Robert... I completely agree, and that's a really good list. And as for the insulation, why not just line the outer hull with the same styrofoam they use for flotation, just in thin sheets? Does double duty - added boyancy and insulation!

The only difference I'd make on your list is with the swim deck - I'd have one like that Swedish one from a while back in the forums (see discussions here and here)... that one was really elegant and simply *beautiful*. Shame is they cost so much in US dollars!

(Edited note: For the record I did write to the company that has these and they are willing to sell them for $360 (that's $450, less VAT) plus shipping, which in itself could be pretty outrageously expensive.)

[Terry]

Well, for what it's worth, here's my two cents worth.
I have a 2003 with the huge cavernous interior and galley beside the daggerboard against the mirror. The better layout IMHO.
I am 6' tall and weigh in @220 lbs with wide shoulders (hobby bodybuilder) and I have absolutely no problem getting to the aft berth on either side. The ladder is not in my way.
I can slide out the two piece dinette table and have even more room in the salon area or put one piece of it in for counter top space beside the galley, very neat.
As for the head location (and it can be vented with a solar vent) it makes a nice division for the children's stateroom. (We are childless) if you have any. Girl children would really appreciate having thier own space with a curtain across the open side. Two children of the same sex could share this.
I cannot imagine anyone tall enough sleeping on the port side to be stretched so far as to have their face at the head, and if there is someone that tall they could always place their feet at the head end. Now no one has to crawl past the port side sleepers pillow if in fact there even is any one sleeping there at all. A family of two chidren would not be faced with this. There is a saying I have heard in the boating community, even from folks with a 34' tolleycraft powerboat. There is room for:
Cocktails for eight
Dinner for four
Sleeps TWO
Families with children will have to ignore the last line.
The new 2003 M layout is vastly superior to the X and really improves on the wasted back porch space of the X by reallocating it to the interior, not to mention the creation of the curvacious aft in the process.
I have just finished my third season with it and am very satisfied with the layout. I have discovered though that most cooking and eating takes place in the cockpit so I question the need for a dinette at all.
I will admit to only one negative aspect, I am a bit big for that head so I only use it in an emergency when there are no other options. In three seasons I can count the emergencies on one hand. My wife is small so it is not an issue for her. I have also taken out the wooden shelf and placed the pottie on the floor.
Speaking of floors, I have a large wood insert in the heaad floor (that I bolted the pottie to) and another wood section in the salon floor, real wood, not plastic stuff.
Overall it is a great choice for a boat and I do not consider it a van or motor home but instead see it as a luxury sport coupe.

[aya16]

Moe you shouldnt hold back let us know how you feel, Good lord man.
You shame me I almost feel like I got ripped off. Good thing you dont sell them for a living no one would buy.
Im sure that most of the people that bought the M are going to disagree with your rant. But some how I feel just to disagree isnt enough. I feel you insulted all the M people around. Now maybe they dont feel that way and just think your being honest and you have a right to your opinion but I dont. Your rant was disgraceful and insulting.
But what did I really expect when I extend the hand of piece and you chew it off. Im glad you dont have an M I couldnt take all the slobber you would drool on the board about how great it is, and the bashing you would Dump on the poor X guys. If I owned an X I would give you a good tongue lashing, But no, another X guy comes and and hear hears you. Unbelievable.
It really doesnt matter to me how you dump on the M I own one and I know your full of it. The problem comes when someone is looking at buying a new boat and read your junk they will maybe pass or worse buy a used X with all kinds of problems Like with the engine. Then pay thousands to fix it.

Im here to state loud and clear to those that want to consider buying a new boat: The M is a great little boat that is easy to use and very comfortable. The inside of the boat is warm and friendly. The performance will give you pride everytime you use it.
The rantings of some posters here about the M are unfounded they never stayed in one or sailed one or Listened to any owner with a good opinion
Of the boat so check the inside out for yourself compare it to other boats in this size and youll see that the Mac is way roomier than the other boats. As far as the X goes buy it if you like it but there really isnt that big of a diff. between them. Only it seems that the big diff. is with some owners who need to put down your choice to justify theirs. Sad
Maybe if your a happy go lucky type person the M is for you and if your a grouchy old fart then the X is for you, hows that? Does that work?

[kmclemore]

Maybe if your a happy go lucky type person the M is for you and if your a grouchy old fart then the X is for you, hows that? Does that work?

Make that "crusty" old fart and I'll take it... just gimmie my X. I'll leave the grouching to others.

[ALX357]

Moe's complaint is only against the boat, not the owners, and while predictable, it is a misplaced retort to take it personally. There were no personal insults, and no call for them in reply. Speak to the discussion ... the M has enough great qualities to be described and compared on its own merits, and a personal counter-attack only serves to make the M appear unable to respond rationally.
Love your boat like your life depends on it .... but let's keep a grip on sanity.

[richandlori]

Holy Smokes....are we at this M vs X thing again? Ya, I checked my calendar that we were about due...

I have a 2004M and love it. If I had a 2001X, I'm sure I would love it. The only way to settle this X vs M debate would be still have the X in production alongside the M and then check yearly sales volumes. The only real problem with that approach is that it still wouldn't end the X vs M because it is all a personal decision.

I went with a New (ok, it was used, but only for 1 month when I bought it) boat because as a general rule, I like to buy new: boat, car, house, clothes, RVs, wives, ect.

Until I started getting out on the boat regularly I was having buyers remorse for the roughly $7,500 more dollars I spent on a M vs the X. However, as soon as I started using the boat, I havent thought twice about it.

For our family of two kids (boy 7 girl the layout works great. I sleep on port seat, son and dog in V-berth, and daughter with Admiral in aft bunk. Every once in a while, I get lucky and get to sleep with the Admiral in the aft bunk and boot the kids forward.

I cook mainly in the cockpit and with the onboard microwave, so galley to me is just counter space.

Ice chest has been permanently moved to the seat across from the head. This location frees up the aft bunk and more importantly, gives some counter space forward and makes access to the ice chest easy, no seats to lift, ect.

At 58 and 225lbs, I have no problem getting in the M stern, while on the trailer, in the water, or on the dock, so for me its not an issue. I prefer the extra room in the aft bunk, which I use for storage.

Im sure this discussion will play out all again when Rodger goes back to the centerboard and changes the Ms design yet again, just like he does every few years. And when he does, he will bad mouth what he one praised!

Enjoy your Boat and dont waste your time worrying if someone likes something else more than what you have.how does that affect your happiness? Only if I let it.

Rich

[Catigale]

YOu can observe a lot just by watching....

THis is turning into an east X/west coast M thing...


East Coast - West Coast

Absolutely no - Maybe

Action Item by End of Month for Joe - Joes working on it

Bozo - Subcontractor

Brawl - Design Review

Dictator - Facilitator

I love my X - I love my M

Do it and do it now - Can you sign up for this program

Do it right or youre fired - Im confident in you

F off - Trust me

Follow the spec - Theres a spec?

Get out of my face - Lets get a consensus on this

Hes a jerk - Hes not signed on to our plan

Hes a subordinate - Hes a team player

Ill cover your a - Consider me your resource

Ignore him hes new - Im bringing him up to speed

Local bar - Offsite facility

What the sh - Thanks for bringing that to my attention

Over designed - Robust

Punch his lights out - Constructive confrontation

Bazooka-ed - Informative criticism

Shut the f up - Thank you for that input

Shut your yap for a minute - Let me share this with you

Thats totally incompetent - Let me build on that point

Unemployed - Consulting

Over budget - On Schedule

Under budget - We havent started yet

We finished early - No translation

Were done - How do you feel about that

Whats wrong with you? - I certainly understand your feelings

Where is the spec? - What is a spec?

Wheres the schedule - Whats the game plan?

Yes - Maybe

Your plan sucks - Let me share my feeling on this plan


Catigale, the Crusty old Fart

[Mark Prouty]

I think someone is getting a good chuckle off X or M debate again:

Re: Naive Aussie seeking US wisdom

Thanks for being there. I was considering and after experienceing your website I'm convinced that the enthusiasm generated therein means that a Mac is the boat for me .

I'm not sure which one; an X or an M. I'm a dinghy sailor and this will be my first yacht. I want to spend weekends on board, sometimes with wife, sometimes with 2 x teenage kids and sometimes alone. Most sailing will be in Sydney Harbour but will do occassional outside trips. A 26' is about the right length.

Could I have some advice. Also any contacts you have in Australia will help. I beleive there's an option of importing used one from the States.

Thank you,

humm - only one post.

Ian... You out there?

If you are, you sure got things riled-up again.

signed,
Mark
grouchy old fart
asparagus lover

[aya16]

[Moe's complaint is only against the boat, not the owners, and while predictable, it is a misplaced retort to take it personally. There were no personal insults, and no call for them in reply. Speak to the discussion ... the M has enough great qualities to be described and compared on its own merits, and a personal counter-attack only serves to make the M appear unable to respond rationally.
Love your boat like your life depends on it .... but let's keep a grip on sanity.quote]

He can say anything he wants about my wife but when he attacks my boat look out.............

Really, does some one have to rationally respond to rants? I dont think so.
Maybe prudence would dictate no response. As the reality of it all is the opinion is based on twenty minutes spent inside an M at the dealers parking lot.
If I spent the time bashing the X boat like that you would respond dif. I think. But maybe not, you might be a better person than that. I wouldnt know but I will give you the benefit of the dought, Maybe like some should on a subject they Know nothing about like an M. Naw Im sure you went back and reread the M bash posts and changed your mind that its a little over the top. I dont know if you noticed or not but the M people that responded on this thread only defended the M did not do some hyped up comparison of why the X is not as good as the M.
Its a no brainer to them and me that the rants we were subject to were bull based on a desire to justify a choice in the X. None of the crap was true it was all based on pencil drawings and a 20 min romp at a dealer.
Theres no two week test in an M and I hated it opinion was formed, it was pure put down of a product that was never tried based on what?
So again how do you respond rationally to that without hurting the X owners that think the opinion was crap too?
Anyway Im not mad, I just like to make it clear that because someone sounds like they know what they are talking about doesnt mean they do. In this case it was a silly rant meant to be taken as an informed opinion..
If I read an M guy blasting away at your X boats like that I would have responded in kind to him to. And Moes opinion is cherished here because he does do alot of research, and gives alot of himself in the process, But man the guy doesnt know when to stop or admit he might be wrong. Or even worse just made a guy who has been saving for years to buy a Mac and now feels like crap, and heaven help him if his wife reads Moes post.
anyway enough of this stuff I said it all Im done......

[ALX357]

sure i love my X , but just for balance, and maybe to pre-empt a vicious attack on its sensitive pride, here's a complaint list ....
(hope my boat doesn't find out about it)

1) too much freeboard and windage - not cramped enough inside
2) poor forward access on deck- no side walks, have to walk over top
3) looks like a refrigerator inside - too clean
4) forces me make my own choices about interior decor
5) doesn't point to windward very well - see first complaint
6) heels too quickly - especially if i forget to ballast
7) dangerous boat if operated by uninformed or careless borrower
8 ) so light it can be stolen on the trailer by thief with regular car
9) did not cost enough to really bust the budget
10) requires minimal maintenance, too much boating time (shucks)
11) cockpit gives me agoraphobia, too much open space and people tend to socialize there.
12) has too many places to put things, i lose track of where stuff is
13) looks so different, always drawing comment
14) high motoring speed pi$$ off other sailboat owners puttering along
15) confusing array of choices and combinations ... rudders up/down, board up/down, ballast in/out, motor or sail, motor disconnected from steering or attached, Genoa or jib, roller or hank, reefed or full, spin or not, trim up or all the way down, puny 50hp or big bertha
16} head is absolutely too small for more than one person at a time,
no way for hanky panky on bathroom sink vanity.
16.5) can be sailed lazy or intense, boat don't care.
16.6) has pretentious Scottish name, but was actually made in kooky trendy west coast town, with lots of help from south of the border.
17) no end in sight for these complaints - i could go on.......

.........with 5000 or more boats out there, there are other numerous MacOwners who share my grief, and can sympathize.
... feel free to vent along with me.