Anchor away

[Frank C]

... Success or failure of the bridle depends on the amount of energy stored in the rode. If the wind is strong enough and the rode is long enough, when the boat is turned by the rode it will run up on the anchor and slack the rode.

I had a different take on the bridle's effectiveness, which is intended to reduce the hull's tacking against the anchor. When wind is too light, the hull simply won't 'tack' ... no surprise that it takes notable wind velocity to create lift across the freeboard. Prior to that degree of wind, the hull will pull the rode tight and then 'bounce back' against the catenary, slackening the rode.

We recently anchored for an afternoon in a well-sheltered cove. With depth about 15 feet, I let out a good 80 feet, using a bridle to the winch. I found the boat wandering aimlessly in light winds ... an adjacent Hunter 40+ was behaving similarly. As soon as afternoon winds kicked up to 12+ mph the hull began to strain at the rode. But the bridle took effect, holding the hull on a single tack (stb tack, bridled to stb winch) in a range of about 45 degrees.

This seems logical ... the hull is effectively heading upwind between close-hauled and irons. By contrast, when anchored at the bow, it seems these hulls want to swing (pretty reliably) from a Stb beam reach to Port beam reach.

Once the wind came up with rode forequartered, the hull could no longer cross the eye of the wind. I don't ever recall the rode going slack once winds are strong enough to induce hull-tacking. The Hunter also steadied as winds came up. I found that just snubbing the rode at the aft pulpit stanchion yielded the same results as a bridle, but I wouldn't want to leave the boat snubbed to the stanchion overnight. YMMV.

[Retcoastie]

Problems, Problems!

I don’t like the idea of dragging a stern anchor to reduce the “Mac Swing”. In many places it would be destructive to the sea grass, a No-No. Setting one might be a different story.

I tried the bride with mixed results and dangerous results. The worst example, we anchored in the lee of a low island in the Keys in high winds that were due to increase. Because of the cove we were in, waves and tidal current were not a problem. I set our Bruce and swung for a while in 15-20 Kt winds. I figured I’d try the bridle. It calmed us right down. We slept well. When I got up the winds were at 25 and gusty but we were holding and not swinging. I sit in the forward bench while eating. As I was enjoying my after breakfast coffee, I looked out the starboard window and saw a mangrove bush move rapidly past the window, aft to forward, about four feet from the window. We were dragging. A mad dash to the cockpit and fire that 50HP as it was going into the water. We were in about 10 inches of water but the Honda power got us back in deep water. I had to watch I didn’t run over the anchor rode or the bridle. Wind was now 30 Kts and gusting. I reset the Bruce without the bridle and swung until I finished my coffee, (read that - calmed my fluttering heart) and got ready for the day. My conclusion was that turning all that free board sideways to a 30 Kt wind was more stress than my 16.5 lb Bruce could take. So the cravat is that if you are going to use the bridle, think about the additional load on the anchor.

For anchors we use the 16.5 lb Bruce with 8 ft of 7/16 chain on 130 of 3/8 nylon and a 13.5 lb danforth on 20 ft of 1/4 chain and 105 ft of 3/8 nylon. The Bruce rides in a 3 inch PVC pipe on the pulpit port stanchion and I deploy it from there. The danforth is in the locker and I deploy it off the starboard side because of the locker door. The bitter ends of the rodes are tied together in case I need a really long rode and it serves as a safeguard against loosing one as they are on opposite side of the forestay.

[goddardw]

I single hand my Mac 25 and anchor from the cockpit. I then pull a loop of anchor line forward outside the shrouds and pull the loop long enough to lead it through the bow eye then cleat to the bow cleat. I then release the rear cleat which then leaves us anchored to the bow eye.
To avoid anchor sailing, I drop a second anchor from the rear cleat from t he cockpit with minimal scope. This second anchor stops anchor sailing usually giving a steady anchorage.

The bow anchor is a 10 lb Fortress with 15 ft. of 5/16" chain. The rear anchor is a 10 lb Navy anchor with 6 ft. of 3/8 chain.

[Frank C]

I wouldn't want a bridle moving the rode's snub-point any farther aft than the fore-hatch. The mast is certainly too far aft. In my experience, setting bridle to the rode about 5 or 6 feet aft of the bow has been ample to reduce the hull's tendency to tack, leaving a swing-arc of 45 degrees or so. At such orientation, I find the hull is still mainly aligned with the wind, surely not beam-on.

[tangentair]

Frank
Would you consider adding a cleat at

about 5 or 6 feet aft of the bow

and just tie off to it or is it important to add enough "leg" to each side of the attachment point to get the rode lower with relationship to the freeboard and shift the pivot point off the deck

[Frank C]

Adding a cleat on both fore-quarters is in my job-jar. I already bought 'em, two big beefy 10" cleats. This mod is actually pretty easy. Many owners have cut into the bow flotation compartment for mounting aft-facing speakers. That hole provides ample access to this area of deck. I'll be using an oak 1x4 as the backer, after rounding-over the 4 oak edges that will contact the underside of the deck.
Just a SWAG, the new cleat's prolly only 4 feet aft from the bow, very close to the stanchion. But I wouldn't want the cleat mounted any higher than foredeck height.

My results when tying off to the aft stanchion have been totally satisfactory (bow-high freeboard), so I don't really see any need to lower the tether point. If I want to pull the snub-point farther aft, it's still a simple matter to attach a dockline from the new cleat to the winch, and join it to the rode only a couple of feet along that dockline. Since the cleat is aft by ~ 4' the bridle would be effective for adjusting the snub-point from ~ 2' to 6' aft.

[Jeff Stagg]

If anyone would like a digital photo of the anchor bridle setup (yes, with the cinch), please send an e-mail to [email protected]. Sorry, I haven't learned how to post a photo here.

Frank's tip on creating a bow bridle for reduced anchor swing is sweet. My feedback to him years ago was with a gadget I picked up at Pacific Sailexpo in Oakland, the Montana Cinch, which is a great tool for combining two lines without any knots. On the lake, I use two secure anchors, bow and stern, no dragging in forty knots. Been there before.

If you go to http://www.theboaters.tv/?gclid=CO6lx63 ... YAodSwdZEw you'll be treated to a lovely anchor giving the latest on boating news, including a story (on Friday, July 27th) about a huge cut by the biggest mfrs for boat parts etc., so you may now realize that a startup company like montanacinch.com will by now be defunct.

This takes nothing away from the concept of securing a secondary line to the rode for stabilizing your Mac at anchor, just means you can no longer achieve it by purchasing the Montana Cinch; the telephone is disconnected.

As far as doing business with anyone, call first to see if the number is disconnected. I learned this from using my coupon book for restaurants, called the Entertainment Book (www.entertainmentbook.com). ALWAYS call to see if they are still in business to avoid looking like a jerk on your dinner date. Final example: going to Folsom Lake in Cali? Guess what? All boats out of the slips by August 1st, it's going to be all mud and no water, very unusual, since last year was December. As for me, no worries, I just drive over and launch at the low level ramp and enjoy a whole lot less ski boats.

BTW, for a good laugh at those pesky PWCs (personal watercrafts), go here: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... wchelp.htm

Jeff Stagg MacX2284F898 "Three Suns" Roseville, CA USA

[Hugh]

I'm reviving this thread as I'm about to set out on our first trip and will be anchoring for the first time

It seems that the consensus was/is using a bridle system to calm the swing. from attaching the Anchor rode to bow cleat with a bridle line back to either the rear cleat or to the winch appears to work in higher winds. the bridle attachment point can be moved along the rode.
Mentioned was using a figure 8 from the climbing world. http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/cli ... 0ALL1.html Any picture of how the figure 8 is used?
Is the butterfly knot similar to a prusik knot (also from the climbing world) http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/prusik-knot/

Hugh

[yukonbob]

Figure 8’s can be used a number of ways. Google figure 8 climbing tool uses. Should pop up several diagrams. Basically form a loop in the middle of the line and slip it through the big end and around the little end. Butterfly is fixed not adjustable but can take a lot of load multidirectional. Prusiks may work but chances of slipping pretty good under light loads. This could cause binding at an improper angle. Same may happen with the fig 8 as well though. Fig 8 can be used to rappel, or belay in that they can easily let the rope slide through until proper tension is applied at the proper angle. Butterfly is your best bet or bowline on a bight; OR if you want to dedicate a line, just put a loop in it, but don’t expect to get it out…ever.

[Boblee]

We use a bridle but usually on only one of the bow anchors but every situation is different depending on tides and winds, which can change quickly and from location to location but when you are getting smacked side on by waves especially in a Mack you soon find the best way to point into them or up anchor and look for somewhere more sheltered.

[Hugh]

Figure 8’s can be used a number of ways. Google figure 8 climbing tool uses. Should pop up several diagrams. Basically form a loop in the middle of the line and slip it through the big end and around the little end. Butterfly is fixed not adjustable but can take a lot of load multidirectional. Prusiks may work but chances of slipping pretty good under light loads. This could cause binding at an improper angle. Same may happen with the fig 8 as well though. Fig 8 can be used to rappel, or belay in that they can easily let the rope slide through until proper tension is applied at the proper angle. Butterfly is your best bet or bowline on a bight; OR if you want to dedicate a line, just put a loop in it, but don’t expect to get it out…ever.

YB; I wonder how easy it is to get a bowline on a bight or butterfly into an anchor rode and in the right spot in real world applications?
I foresee a lot of adjusting happening to get the right angle of attack (as it were). Having not done this I'm just speculating.....
I see a prusik or figure 8 easier to set up and adjust.

Hugh
BTW get a bit of a shaker the other day?

[Boblee]

Put the bowline or truckers hitch on another piece of rope around your anchor line and then take it back to the winch or just pull to the required angle, allowing it to slide, the photo shows the bridle still in place after a rough night when the waves came dierctly off the land in front somehow but it meant the difference between sleeping comfortably or being awake and battered and bruised.
Always seems to come up about 1 am, so much for the safe anchorage and absolutely no other shelter for 40k.

Was a great island for exploring and looking where turtles had laid eggs though just a pity we had to leave as I wasn't going to spend another night in this "sheltered" cove, just glad the wife wasn't on board should have listened to the Cat owner who said it could cut up rough.

[Ixneigh]

Wouldn't a light stern anchor be less of a nuisance?
Ix

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

The last couple times I used a light stern danforth in the keys, I couldn't get it to set right so it would just drag around all night from side to side. Usually means the stern rode is wrapped around the lower unit in the morning too. It does probably dampen the swing a bit but it does not stop it completely like if the stern anchor is properly set. Some folks here seem to think its pretty dangerous having bow and stern anchors set, but I've used that many times in Florida with total success against swinging. It is true that if the wind shifts to the beam, then there is a lot more pull on the anchors, and I would never let myself get into that situation with the winds blowing more than 15-20, or if I'm not totally protected from the chop too... but in most situations, I don't feel too worried about it and once that danforth is well set in the sand or mud, it has never come loose in 11 years of owning my mac. But I am getting ready to buy a third non-danforth anchor soon too so that will give me more options.

[mastreb]

Figure 8's are the easiest worthwhile knot to tie correctly, and are among the strongest of all knots. Climbers use them because they're easy to tie, fast, and easy to check to make sure they're tied correctly. They also don't come loose on low-friction lines like HDPE/Dyneema/amsteel because they jam. You shouldn't use a bowline on low-friction line because it will come loose. They have a rated breaking strength of 100% of the line breaking strength. With a shackle, they're ideal for anchors.

The problems with them is that they jam and can be impossible to untie without a marlinspike, and that they're very difficult to tie correctly around something, unlike the bowline which is purpose made for that.