Buying a new main sail ? Muslehead ?

[bubba]

Steve has a boom kicker he got from Kelly Hanson sails and we lifted the boom and tryed everything the 2 of us could think of before giving up and sailing for 7 hours. I tryed to call a bit ago and he was not home at 8:30. Hopefully he figured out what was wrong (because the main had been hoisted all the way up before) to be able to sail today, there was a 10 kt breeze out of the south east, up stream and that is easy sailing.

[delevi]

Correction of what I posted previously. My Quantum laminate sails are not one solid piece. There are seams. The seams are very hard to see... you basically have to look for them. They are quite obvious on the KH pentex genoa since it's clear mylar with white dacron seams. The Quantums are all the same material, so I never noticed the seams before. The only reason I post this is that it does close the quality gap between Quantum and KH; and the price is miles apart. Just want to give credit where credit is due. BTW, If I have my Mac long enough to have to replace sails again, I would likely go with KH. Wouldn't get the musclehead though. On my pond, it would just mean reefing earlier, plus I have a backstay.

Bubba, you may consider buying the sails first before the mast track and see if you really need it. My slugs came with the Quantum sails but they don't look any different than what I had on the OEM sail. I have two full battens at the top. No problem hoisting with a 2:1 main halyard system. No winching. Much cheaper than a track system. Plus my sail is quie thick, designed for heavy wind. It probably weighs quite a bit more than 6.5 oz Dacron. I know the KH 150 genny is lighter than my Quantum 105 jib. Sorry, the notion that you would need a mast track-bat-car system on a Mac just seems ridiculous. Unnecessary cost and extra weight aloft. I guess if it hoists super easy and drops instantly and you're willing to pay, go for it. Still added weight aloft. Even a few pounds makes a difference. Per Mac video, it only takes 90 pounds of force from the masthead to put the boat over on its side. Leverage is huge! Adding 10 pounds of weight to the mast would be approximately like putting a 100 pounds on your leeward side. Just my 2 cents worth.

Leon

[bubba]

Still added weight aloft. Even a few pounds makes a difference. Per Mac video, it only takes 90 pounds of force from the masthead to put the boat over on its side. Leverage is huge! Adding 10 pounds of weight to the mast would be approximately like putting a 100 pounds on your leeward side. Just my 2 cents worth.

I guess that go's for the exrea sq footage at the top of the mainsail also on the stock Mac 26M. We added the recomended 50 lbs ( by BWY ) of lead to the bottom of the daggerboard. I wonder what the wrighting force is now?

Leverage is huge!

? Has anyone calculated the force on the mast with full ballast and 50 lbs of lead in the daggerboard bottom with the daggerboard in the down position ?

[School House Steve]

Bubba,

I didn't make it home until about 9 PM, had flat tire on trailer about 1 mile from home. But Sunday I did get the main hoisted all the way, by releasing both the vang and the mainsheet.
Much better sail shape and I'll post pictures when I get the camera out of the boat. Sailed downstream until the wind got too strong and turned around and went back against the current with the wind behind me making 7.5 mph up stream with just the main. Set the auto helm and GPS for the lower railroad lift bridge and made it dead on center of the bridge on returning. Sailed up the Snake to Ice Harbor Dam turned around and came back downstream with just the jib. Glad you could make on Saturday.

Steve

[bubba]

Glad you got the main up all the way on Sunday and you had a good sail. I wish I had gone out on Sunday too.

[School House Steve]

[imgimg]

Bubba and all.

Here is a picture with the main hoisted all the way up. Better sail shape this time.

SHS

[bubba]

Great pic better than Saturdays photos.

[Stefan]

I've been following this thread thinking of the best option for me, and about now I've almost made up my mind.
The Musclehead would be great, considering the feedback it has. By I've been strongly suggested to install a backstay on my , the Black Sea condition sometimes calls for a better mast support then those shrouds we have. I agree that it'd useful when flying the shute, especially after raising the hound on the mast for it (planning to do so).
I understand that with backstay the Musclehead would not work, so the next reasonable (price and quality) option would be the C2000, loose-footed, full battens.
As it was mentioned here it's a special order from KHsails, I just got an email from them that it would take 4-6 weeks to add full battens, no word about making it loose-footed.
Don't know the price change either. I kind of doubt that I want to wait that long, keeping in mind it would take another month for shipping (talk from experience).

Is there much to be done to the sail to make it loose-footed or it's just a matter of adding the sail slugs just like on the mast side? I guess I can measure and order those boom slugs (may be someone can suggest the exact type they already have) and do it myself. I also hope the batten pockets could be added here locally at the sail repair shop, the guy working there is not getting the best references, but adding the pockets shouldn't be a big deal.

[NiceAft]

Stefan,

When you say:

the Black Sea condition sometimes calls for a better mast support then those shrouds we have.

I assume that you are referring to wind conditions being strong, and the water rough. Am I correct

If yes, then why would you be out in those conditions, and are you aware that with the musclehead, you would be reefed much sooner than you would with a standard sail

Maybe someone has given you bad information about the abilities of the . Do other boats normally go out in the coditions you mentioned

Ray

[Stefan]

Ray,

that's basically what I meant. That the sea can create worse condition than lake or river. At least that's the impression I got from talking to experienced yachtsmen. They all say it's a bad idea to be out at sea without a backstay. Sure there are nice easy days here also, but should I plan to go somewhere overnight I should be prepared for a considerable weather change. Using A-spinaker also would be safer with a backstay. I think I am falling for that suggestion and before I go for a longer trip I am planning to add that additional must support.

[delevi]

Stefan,

First, I will say that I have a backstay on my That said, the boat is designed without a backstay. Hunter boats are also designed this way. I would not agree with the advice you received that you don't want to be out at sea without a backstay. I sail on the San Francisco coast (open ocean) as well as San Francisco Bay where we often get big winds and seas. I'm in my 6th year with the boat and had the backstay for less than a year. The reason I added the backstay is for better upwind performance, especially in higher wind; NOT because I felt the rig needed help. Granted, if you run a spinnaker hound above the forestay, the backstay will give you added support (good peace of mind.) As for the musclehead; believe me, these boats are not lacking for sail area except for very light conditions. In open sea with any kind of decent wind, that extra sail area will quickly become a detriment.

As for 6 weeks wait; most sail lofts will take at least that long. It is custom work, not off the shelf. Don't recall the KH line, but I think they may have 3000 series??? If you go with their sails, get the highest quality for sailing open sea conditions. The pentex sails are very nice, but more expensive; however still much less than most sail lofts.

fair winds,
Leon

[waternwaves]

Hey Leon.........

as a true heavy weatherhead......
1) how much improvement in pointing did you gain by tightening up the foretriangle with a backstay?
2) does it get calm enough in the summer to justify hanging the Genny? (the admiral is talking again about a trip south)
3) How is that 3rd reef workin............?? how about some pictures...... with winds like the sea of cortez??

As I sit up here in 46 degree weather with 30 to 45 kt gusts..........and no one wants to go sailing today. I got one call back for possibly tomorrow.....and he asked .......where are you going??? I told him with this kind of wind it didn't really matter since the boat was going to be doing 8 kts in any direction easily.

[Highlander]

Stefan

Here's how to make an swivel back stay
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010002.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 0006-1.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 0012-2.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 0009-1.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010015.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010008.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 010006.jpg

J

[Currie]

Hey John,

Just a quick off-topic question - I see you bolted your bimini hardware thru the rubrail instead of using screws on top of the gunwale. How did that work out? I'm about to add back-supports for my bimini and that looks interesting. You can PM me if you don't want to hijack the thread. Thanks!

~Bob

Hi Bob

That is the Dowsar encloser.
It comes installed that way from the dealer.
G

[delevi]

1) how much improvement in pointing did you gain by tightening up the foretriangle with a backstay?
2) does it get calm enough in the summer to justify hanging the Genny? (the admiral is talking again about a trip south)
3) How is that 3rd reef workin............?? how about some pictures...... with winds like the sea of cortez??

Darren,
1. I would say 3-5 across the board. That is. 3-5 degrees higher pointing, 3-5 degree heel reduction, .3-.5 knots increase in boat speed.
2. Genny??? oh no. Odds are you'll regret it. I took my genny down 2 weeks ago and put up the 105 reefing jib. I typically use the genny in the fall and winter months when winds aren't strong, or when I trailer out to a lake. It's a great time to sail SF. Right, now, mostly clear skies, about 60 degree temps and 20 knots breeze. Of course, always subject to change. If you make the trip, PM me. Maybe we can hook up. BTW, Our NOAA forecasts are a joke. They're inaccurate more than half the time, and usually, there is more wind than what is forecast. In the summer months, 25-35 knots around the slot (Golden Gate) is common, and almost like clockwork, 1-4:30 p.m. It is usaually lighter if you head north up the bay or just a bit south. If you go too far south (where my marina is) you hit another wind funnel and it blows like a banshee.
3. I love the 3rd reef, especially when it's blowing 30+ Sometimes, I'll use it in 25kts, which would allow me to fly more jib. At 25 kts on the 2nd reef, I often have to furl in more jib than I would like. The 3rd reef yields a 70 sq ft mainsail, about 1/2 hoist, just below the 2nd batten. With my 2 top battens full, it is a full batten sail, high aspect, flat, nice. Then I can use about 50% of the jib, giving me 135 sq ft sail area, with excellent balance and very little weather helm. I have used this setup in gusts of 45 kts. Granted, with the boat still on its ear, but moving. Only downside is I can't point much closer than 50 deg. Well, I could, but I'll quickly lose about 2 knots boat speed, so I keep it around 50 (40 apparent.) I'll have to take some pictures. Hard to do when single-handing. Geoff (Beene) is coming out here next week, and he is a picture freak, so I'm hoping we'll have plenty of photos to share.

Sea of Cortez???? Can't imagine that one day on my Mac. I probably would have snapped both rudders. 50 Knots wind on the quarter stern and huge waves. I was flying just the genny on the Beneteau 35 footer. Took all I had to keep her on her feet, and I broached at least 10 times over the 4-5 hour sail. In hindsight, I should have flown half the genny. When we surfed, I broke 13 knots boat speed several times. Averaged 10-11. Steering full time with sweat pouring down my face. Couldn't leave the helm for a second as the autopilot couldn't have kept up int those conditions. Couldn't even pee. The good admiral brought me a bucket. Gotta love that I think it was the only time I have sailed when I was truly scared. Thought many times what would happen if we were in the Mac. I don't think it would have been pretty.

As I sit up here in 46 degree weather with 30 to 45 kt gusts..........and no one wants to go sailing today. I got one call back for possibly tomorrow.....and he asked .......where are you going??? I told him with this kind of wind it didn't really matter since the boat was going to be doing 8 kts in any direction easily.

If I was close by, I'd go sailing with you.

Cheers,
L.