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I was thinking that my skegs help the boat a lot going down wind. There is a another guy on here who installed them. Be nice to have his opinion. Also, the only reason I am hesitant to make them substantially larger is that they might hinder the yacht coming about.
Anyone have any computer tech type simulators to work out the ideal size and shape?

Ix

I don't know what kind of storm we could be running into over here that would be worse than what they get over there in the North Sea - I mean - The North Sea - that's pretty much as bad as it gets. And it's ALWAYS bad there.

It's all about testing - how many of us have tested the rudders in a storm? How many of these Motor Rudder things have been tested in a storm? It's just research - find out about the ones that are already on the water and what their failure rate is. In the movies on the web site they are going 30 miles per hour with the thing on the motor so it must be pretty strong.

BOAT wrote: In the movies on the web site they are going 30 miles per hour with the thing on the motor so it must be pretty strong.

Well, when they are doing 30mile/h the course keeper is planning and out of water... Maybe you won't have this speed in a storm on an Mac?!!!

here,s the installation manual
https://www.jonesboatchandlery.co.uk/me ... nglish.pdf

J

Your not going to cross the ocean in a M boat - it's just too light for that kind of ocean travel. When I mean "light" I don't mean lightly built - in fact the M boat is stronger than a lot of other boats that do indeed cross oceans - when I say "light" I mean that the boat just does not weight enough to stay in the water in a gale force wind. In a real storm you can't sail - you lay ahull for hours at a time with no control because the gale wind will push the boat over steeply on it's side even with no sail up at all. I have had this happen to me in a boat much heavier than the M boat in Mexico - what happens is that the boat will just skid along on it's side broadside to the wind - you may try to point the boat into the wind but it will just get blown back sideways to the wind when the force get's over 50 miles per hour and that is really normal wind speeds in a storm. The heavier the boat is the less the wind will torment it -

I have not had 'boat' in gale winds and I suspect there will be no steering control at all in those conditions - that's why I thought it might be best to raise the rudders and just use the outboard as a rudder if the boat was getting slammed or dragged - you can't steer it anyways, so why not at least save the rudders? This is all theory because I have not had the MAC in gale conditions yet and because I have not tested the boat in a gale (nor has anyone else that I am aware of) I would not take it across the ocean because your odds of crossing an ocean without hitting a gale are about 8% - it's a 92% probability you will hit a gale because there is always one out there 24 7 . Those are not good enough odds to test when there is not way to get back.

Testing the boat within 100 miles of shore I am okay with because that's within radio distance and close enough to get back on the OB or a jury rig - beyond that it starts getting pretty tricky finding gas and food and water when your three weeks from any land. Not a good place to test the rudders.

A video of an sailing in 50 MPH winds.

https://youtu.be/smlP6iXnk2s

Ray

I have one of the metal rudder attachments. It helps with low speed maneuvers and is pretty strong. I have never tried to use it as a rudder though. I need to reinstall it and experiment.

Baha wrote:I have one of the metal rudder attachments. It helps with low speed maneuvers and is pretty strong. I have never tried to use it as a rudder though. I need to reinstall it and experiment.

Hey Baha! You sail The North Sea as I recall, right?

I,m not so sure that raising the rudders is going to save them in a big storm they r awfully badly exposed in the up position in the event of a grand slam broad broach I think they likely to just get broken off , best thing if possible is to just sit behind a wave in a following sea , I know this is not always possible when trying to get into a port
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf5lhO4CCiI

J

Highlander wrote:I,m not so sure that raising the rudders is going to save them in a big storm they r awfully badly exposed in the up position in the event of a grand slam broad broach I think they likely to just get broken off , best thing if possible is to just sit behind a wave in a following sea , I know this is not always possible when trying to get into a port
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf5lhO4CCiI

J

A very good point captain that also has me a little worried about the rudders - but still, if they do get ruined in the up or down position either way having a spar rudder system on the OB might be a good thing -

There is a chicken and egg thing with this - install the OB rudder before the storm? O r save it as a backup?

BOAT wrote:

Baha wrote:I have one of the metal rudder attachments. It helps with low speed maneuvers and is pretty strong. I have never tried to use it as a rudder though. I need to reinstall it and experiment.

Hey Baha! You sail The North Sea as I recall, right?

Mostly the rivers, but, yeah, I go out there on a good day.

BOAT wrote:

Highlander wrote:I,m not so sure that raising the rudders is going to save them in a big storm they r awfully badly exposed in the up position in the event of a grand slam broad broach I think they likely to just get broken off , best thing if possible is to just sit behind a wave in a following sea , I know this is not always possible when trying to get into a port
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf5lhO4CCiI

J

A very good point captain that also has me a little worried about the rudders - but still, if they do get ruined in the up or down position either way having a spar rudder system on the OB might be a good thing -

There is a chicken and egg thing with this - install the OB rudder before the storm? O r save it as a backup?

No
Install it & have it available at anytime for any type of situation .

But I still think a better Idea is too install a set of dual swivel upper S/S brackets & convert our rudders to vertical raise rather than the horizontal raise so as u can now use them in any depth ?

J

Agree, vertical raising rudders would be very nice for sailing in shallower areas. My cousin has a Farrier Trimaran with a beautiful vertically adjustable rudder. It has shear bolts at the rear of the rudder mount to allow the blade to exit the mount upon impact. The blade is tethered to the mount to allow retrieval. I have a bad case of rudder envy...

Vertical rudders will not work in shallow water. Once raised up half way, there will not be enough rudder to sail. At least on the M model. With caution, I sail mine with the rudders up in shallow water often. The skeg mod helps out in this case.

Ix

It's true - the rudders are part of the whole underwater system that makes the M work - the dagger-board is not wide enough to carry the whole boat reliably down a tack without things getting squirlly - the boat starts to turn into the wind much sooner with shallow rudders. Most of the boats i see with vertical raising rudders are cats and tri's - those boats sail flat on the water so it makes sense.

I wonder if the course keeper would sail the boat? Has baha ever tried to sail the boat on just the course keeper?