Is a Coleman camp stove safe?

[MARK PASSMORE]

Is it ok to cook inside the cabin with a Coleman two burner camp stove. The kind that uses the small propane bottles. Do I have to have plenty of ventilation? Also, is it possible to use this type of stove for heating the cabin? I know that the open flame is dangerous but if one made a protective cover for the stove it could also double as a fire place, sort of. Would carbon monoxide be a problem with this kind of stove as long as the flame did not go out?
I’m very ignorant when it comes to this stuff. My guess is that it would be dangerous but we have a pop up camper that has a propane furnace and a propane cook stove. Is this somthing I should worry about.

[School House Steve]

I installed a Coleman stove in my boat and have not had any problems. The instructions came with warnings about carbon monoxide gas when used inside enclosed spaces. I keep the hatch open and the stove only stays on for short periods as it cooks very quickly and does heat up the boat, but I wouldn't use it for long periods as a heater. For heat, I have a catalytic heater "Mr. Heater" that uses the same type of canister, doesn't produce any carbon monoxide, has a low oxygen cut off switch and shuts off if tipped over. I'm considering getting a carbon monoxide and propane leak detectors for further safety. Remember, hot coffee can burn you and water is one of the most dangerous organic compounds on the planet.

[NiceAft]

This subject has been kicked around oh so often. Frank would tell you to do a search for this so you could read the many thoughts that have been posted. Try a search for propane.

I will surmise what I got out of these threads.

Propane is heavier than air. Every time you open one of those bottles, a little escapes, and falls to the lowest area of the boat. This gas is heavy, and does not evaporate into the atmosphere. It falls, lies around, and accumulates Unless there is a heavy breeze, to ventilate ( and I mean a real steady, constant gush of air in the the bilge areas to cleanse) the lowest areas of the boat, the gas will collect. The probability of cleansing air down there is slim to none, and slim left on the noon train. The gas can, and will build up over time. Each and every time you open a bottle, or screw one onto the stove, or unscrew it, etc. This is the concept of drop by drop build up in the lowest areas of the boat. There is a real danger of explosion.

The CO problem is different. That gas will continue to amass as long as the flame burns. If you are in an enclosed area, such as a cabin, there is risk of CO poisoning when the flame burns. The less ventilation, the higher the risk. That's it in a nutshell

Go do the search and see for yourself.


Ray

[bastonjock]

i went off of gas stoves in a big way a couple of weeks ago.I reinserted a new catridge and there was a bit of a spit,i waited a couple of minutes and lit the stove,the flame came on and then followed a track around the perimiter of the stove.The butane just sits there wating for a spark,evertme you loose some gas,as it is heavier than air it will end up in the bilges.So i bought an origo 3000

id rather not have gas in the boat,i keep the canisters for the gas barbie outsite in the lazerette area

if you are going to be using butane or propane in a mac,be very carefull,vent the bilges and fit a detector

[c130king]

Has anyone ever used one of those camping stoves that use "white gas"? I have a couple of "backpacking" stoves from my Scouting days. They are single burner but they don't take up much space and from my experience in Scouts they work pretty well.

Fuel is very easy to carry and store in the red bottles. And it is readily available at pretty much much any store that sells camping gear.

Here is an example:
Whisper Lite Backpacking Stove

Wondering if they have any "dangers" other than the flames/CO (on edit: I meant CO and not CO2...Thanks Ray!!) you will have with any type of stove.

Jim

[Pacamac-uk]

Has anyone ever used one of those camping stoves that use "white gas"? I have a couple of "backpacking" stoves from my Scouting days. They are single burner but they don't take up much space and from my experience in Scouts they work pretty well.

Fuel is very easy to carry and store in the red bottles. And it is readily available at pretty much much any store that sells camping gear.

Here is an example:
Whisper Lite Backpacking Stove

Wondering if they have any "dangers" other than the flames/CO2 you will have with any type of stove.

Jim

That's naptha, a flammable liquid/gas that flashes off and condenses easily, a bit like ammonia (which is not flammable) or a refrigerant gas.

At one time it was used instead of water in a steam boiler on steam launches.

Can you imagine boiling up a highly flammable (inflammable?) liquid in a boiler then running the resultant gas through an engine, condensing back to liquid and feeding it back into the boiler with a naked fire underneath!!!! The fire was fuelled by the naptha as well.

Sounds just as dangerous to me in a confined space.

And they say Victorian engineering was the best!

[bubba]

Does anyone know wheather butane is heavier than air like propane?
We have an alcohol stove and would like to possiably up grade.

I mounted a 1.5 gal propane bottle for the grill in the motor well so no more nightmares of drouning in my sleep from propane gas. 1.5 gal refill cost about $4.00 and it replaces about 8 throw away bottles at $3.00 each (lots of garbage), I must I must think green.

I recomend a Wallas furnace with thru hull exhaust for safe cabin heat.



ModsEdit: to clarify brand of stove - Wallas ~fc

[RickJ]

Butane is actually slightly denser than propane (propane is a 3-carbon chain, butane is 4-carbon, the next one - pentane - is a liquid). Butane liquifies at lower pressure than propane so containers can be lighter, but it doesn't burn quite as hot.

From a safety (or perhaps danger!) point of view, treat them the same.

Cheers, Rick

[kmclemore]

Hi Mark -

Might want to check previous discussions here:

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... 859#111859

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6909

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=449

And from the first link, this may be helpful:

Natural gas, hydrogen (from battery charging), methane, ethylene and acetylene are all lighter than air and will eventually dissipate from a boat. This is easy to remember if you learn the acronym "HEMAN":

Hydrogen
Ethylene
Methane
Acetylene
Natural Gas

Nearly all other flammable gases are heavier. So, propane, butane (and other liquefied petroleum gases, aka LP or LPG), propylene, methylacetylene-propadiene (MAPP), benzene and gasoline are all heavier than air and have the potential to settle in low areas like the bilge, unless you have a forced-ventilation system to remove them.

Now, in answer to your question, I do believe that if used in a safe manner, you can use a propane stove on-board. IMHO, the key safety bit is to install, remove and store your propane *outside* the boat - I do it in the aft cockpit so that any fumes will blow away or settle and run out the transom. Once the bottle is installed and checked for leaks (smell) then you can take it below and use it. Many folks take extra care and leave the stove in the forward portion of the cockpit sole and cook by standing on the companionway steps, but in my personal opinion I feel that may not be necessary, as long as you've checked the stove for leaks before using it.

Now, in reply to the heater question, NO, I would NEVER use a stove as a heater unless it was properly designed as such (like a Wallas stove). If you must use a heater, as noted above one of the better choices may be a catalytic heater which has low-Ox & fall-over shutoff protection, and make sure you place it such that nothing flammable or subject to melting is within 2-3 feet from the front of the heater.

[MARK PASSMORE]

Thank you guys. I’m glad I asked. I will be going out to the boat in a few minutes to remove the three canisters that I have stored under the galley now. I will also start keeping them in the fuel storage under the seat. Last week we slept over on the Mac and about Four in the morning it got very cold so I fired up the Coleman stove. It did heat up the cabin very fast, so it made me start thinking that I would not need to buy a heater instead just use the stove. What was I thinking???
Do the small electric heaters work? I have a power inverter but unsure if the batteries would make it thru the night. Again thanks to the board for the help.

[RickJ]

Forget about using batteries for heating, nowhere near enough energy.

Your Coleman stove is probably putting out around 1kW with both burners. A 12V 85Ah battery stores about 1kWh of energy. So using it to power a 1kW heater would see it last just one hour!

Electric heating needs shore power or a genset. Of course a genset burns fuel to generate the electricity, which is not a very efficient process, so energy-wise you're better off just burning the fuel to produce the heat directly

Cheers, Rick

[Kelly Hanson East]

Yes for cooking - have done it for 7 seasons. Requires diligent practices and no storage of propane below decks. You dont have to worry about that 'phut' when you take the cylinder off, if you do then just do it up in cockpit.

No for heating. No. No. No.

White gas (aka Coleman fuel) is essentially gasoline and does not belong below decks either.

[KayakDan]

I have been using a Coleman 2 burner for a couple of years. With all the cautions about propane,we are very careful with it. I unscrew the cylinder in the cockpit,and never leave a cylinder attached overnight when we're on the boat. My concern is the constant setup and breakdown of the stove. Parts wear out and leaks happen,so I decided to upgrade.
I am just finishing up the installation of a ss sink and 2 burner Force 10 stove in the galley. Propane system is now built in,and includes a detector which automatically shuts down the system by a solenoid at the tank. Also includes a loud alarm. The tanks (2-6lb slim) will be mounted on stainless brackets on the stern rail seats.
It wasn't cheap,but it will be as safe as I can make it,'cause there ain't no small accidents with propane!

Just a note about white fuel. I do a lot of backpacking in the winter,and my friends all use white fuel stoves. I have never seen anybody light a white fuel stove that looked like it was under control. Usually looks like a rocket launch,and it's just as loud! Not a good choice inside a boat.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

As some here have experienced, removable propane (or butane) tank valves can stick. That is the real reason not to take them on and off below deck. When you unscrew that tank and the valve doesn't close you are left with a fountain of gas filling your boat. Do all your tank removals above deck in the cockpit where any spilled gas will drain overboard just like water.

I know of no approved marine propane stove installation that uses portable tanks. They always have an external tank locker with the stove plumbed to fixed tanks and always include a propane sniffer to detect any leaks.

For our small simple boats I'll just stick with my two burner Origo non-pressurized Alcohol stove until I can afford a Wallas. It's served up many, many hot meals over the past 7 years.

[pokerrick1]

I hate stating the obvious, as far as heating the boat, but everyone is talking about flames, stoves and furnaces.

How about a few EXTRA sleeping bags on board that unzip and double as extra blankets After all, if you are sleeping on the boat, it can't be THAT cold And maybe a knit hat (cap)

Rick

PS Also stating the obvious, I surmise this must be an everywhere else but So Cal problem - - - we don't have this problem in Southern California